History - Exterminate All The Brutes

[gzregorz]

Have you ever heard of the HIghland Clearances (since it is Scottish Heritage Month). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances

Thanks Steve, I will look into it. They mentioned it in the series.

I also know "some" use it to change the subject away from African slavery which is another reason to learn the history to understand the truth instead of the rhetoric.

[gzregorz]

There's a passage in the Dao De Jing that goes like:

What does the Dao De Jing say about denying history?

Or on building a society based on exploiting and stealing lands from the natives, using free African labor and if they resist resorting to murder, taking half of Mexico and denying their people their rights, and banning Asians from coming to the US once the railroads were built?

Somehow I doubt the Taoists would see the possibility of the peace and contentment you described in these lands.

Perhaps the solution is for the majority and those with power to understand their wrongs and to change their ways. We will not return to the 1800s or even the 1950s when men of European ancestry could do whatever they wished as minorities and women accepted being second class citizens.

I wish such painful subjects and topics Raoul Peck's films show us could be seen as something which occurred long ago but the fact is because these subjects have not been dealt with our whole society suffers today.

For example, George Floyd. I am upset about what happened George Floyd just because of his race but because he was a human and didn't deserve to have an officer be judge, jury and executioner. I would be just as upset if it happened to you and these things happen to white Americans too but not nearly as often as it happens to minorities.

Seems the Taoists would understand this and that such a situation cannot continue. If not then they are not living in reality. Which is why these days I prefer stoicism. At least the stoicis understood living by and standing by your principals instead of joining the ranks of the insane.

[gzregorz]

Since they dearly love their homes,
they aren't interested in travel.

Couldn't disagree more. I have met several people from several "great" countries who loved their homes yet traveled extensively as part of their intellectual curiosity.

[Steve James]

Have you ever heard of the HIghland Clearances (since it is Scottish Heritage Month). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances

Thanks Steve, I will look into it. They mentioned it in the series.

I also know "some" use it to change the subject away from African slavery which is another reason to learn the history to understand the truth instead of the rhetoric.

Well, yeah, some people argue that Black Americans shouldn't complain about slavery because 1) White people were also enslaved --meaning the Irish; 2) Africans sold Africans; and 3) Black Americans also owned slaves. The claims are all "true," but don't support the conclusion given, but lead to stranger ones.

For ex., assuming all the claims are true, we can also say that. 1) White people enslaved White people in America, but where are the stories of White slaves? Were they freed with the Emancipation Proclamation? Do they celebrate their liberation? Where are the descendants of White slaves now?

2) Europeans also sold Europeans for quite a bit longer than the African slave trade. The word "slave" comes from the "Slavs" who were among the most popular slaves in Europe. Well, even before that, the Angles were enslaved by the Romans. That's before the Danes and Saxons fucked over them. We've all seen Vikings, I'm sure.

3) Black Americans did own slaves; shucks, they had to buy their own freedom, and they often bought their own children. That's my family's story btw. Five generations back, my g-g-g-g-grandfather was a blacksmith. He was able to save up, buy his children, and they were lucky enough to go to school. The point of the anecdote is that when we have family reunions, there's a cake in the shape of a horseshoe. Iow, we remember. So, those White people who were owned by Black plantation owners should remember, too.

However, the Irish do remember the "blight" and the "coffin ships" and being forcibly removed and having to pay for a trip to the US. I would argue that the Irish were treated worse than Africans because Africans were more expensive and harder to replace.



So, why don't we read about this in our history books? Of course, that comes from people who probably haven't read many history books. Why don't they teach it in school? Well, when they Irish were treated like slaves, the excuse was that they were a lower race than the English. (Look up Milesian). The Irish weren't considered White in the US until around the Civil War. Here's something interesting from the Irish Times https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/allu ... e-1.211843

Anyway, why should we tell the Irish story? Why have an Irish American heritage month? Isn't it all American history? Yep, that's the point. We don't have to know the story of the Chinese in the west, but it's American history. Should we teach about the Trail of Tears or Indian Removals? How about the Polish who were in Virginia in the 17th century?

Sure, people can ask why they need to know about someone else. But, it's a sin if someone doesn't want to know abuot himself. American history was made by the Americans who were here, not by the people who wrote the history books. It is better now than it was when I was coming up, though. Though, the fact that people think Columbus is part of US history more than Cortez is still funny.

[Steve James]

Nobody's probably going to read the article above, but on the question of "race." There's a history to the word "miscegenation" (race-mixing) that may be interesting to some. So, just for the fun of it.

Perhaps most tellingly of all, it was an Irishman, D.G Croly, who, with his co-author George Wakeman, jointly brought the word "miscegenation" into American usage in their pamphlet, Miscegenation: The Theory of the Blending of the Races, Applied to the American White Man and Negro, published in 1863.

The pamphlet was written as an elaborate hoax, under the pretence that it was the work of abolitionists. It was designed to lure anti-slavery Republican Party leaders into endorsing sentiments which could then be used against them with the Irish electorate.

Chief among them was a fantasy of Irish-Black sex. They stressed that "connubial relations between black men and white Irish women" would be "pleasant to both parties", and they purported to argue that the mixing of Irish and black blood would be "of infinite service to the Irish . . . a more brutal race and lower in civilisation than the negro".

Again, though the political intention is racist, what is striking is that the fantasy of Irish-Black sexual relations could be so vividly imagined by an Irish-American like Croly. This ability to imagine racial mixing, and the broader level of underground identification with blacks to which it points, has remained present in contemporary Irish culture.

[gzregorz]

Watching Dr Cornell West on the BBC as we await the results of the trial.

I think it goes without saying that poor working class whites in the South would have had compassion if they had related to slaves originating from Africa.

Which I believe is the point of white supremacy. Instead of having working class whites relate to people escaping voilence and corruption from Central America for example or from the near East as in Europe. They are told that these people are invaders who will destroy their culture, their nation and their country instead of holding their own leaders accountable.

People of who want to forget that their ancestors were enslaved in Europe want to see themselves as better than non-white minorities. Of course some choose to remember both being enslaved in the British Isles or as far back as Egypt. These people seem to have a deeper understanding of what other people go through as a result of the pigment of their skin.

Being that I am around Polish immigrants. I find it interesting how many seem to look down on Mexican immigrants (not knowing that I am half Mexican). Yet Poles are essentially the Mexicans or Latinos of the UK. Yet in UK their whiteness isn't enough to be accepted but here it is. I admit that Eastern Europeans are do not necessarily have it easy here but their children and generations afterwards don't have to concern themselves as being seen as outsiders the way darker skin people do. In fact these people are likely to say to someone like me to go back to where I came from when my Aztec bloodlines would say I have been here for thousands of years.

[Trick]

Since they dearly love their homes,
they aren't interested in travel.

Couldn't disagree more. I have met several people from several "great" countries who loved their homes yet traveled extensively as part of their intellectual curiosity.

Must disagree a little with your understanding here.

If one must travel/move then there’s something lacking at home, however after ones travels one may realize nothing was actually lacing at home. Those who truly know their home know the world. This also relate to ones inner self, truly knowing oneself then there’s no need to go on any spiritual/philosophical/intellectual journeys

However that was back in Lao tzu’s days, nowadays things might be different.

But this little passage in the verse that pussle me a bit

. They enjoy the labor of their hands
and don't waste time inventing
labor-saving machines.

yes there’s stuff that was invented in China but what “labour-saving machines” was invented back in Lao tzu’s days ??

[Trick]

Yes it’s a thread on African slaves being traded and moved to the Americas, as I have come to understand it was ppl from the western areas of the African continent that was taken? But there supposedly was an much bigger and long enduring slave businesses by the Arabs/middle easterners of ppl from the eastern parts of Africa..some say it’s still in practice ?

[gzregorz]

However that was back in Lao tzu’s days, nowadays things might be different.

I still stand by my words. I meet Scandinavians (for example) all the time in Bay Area both as tourists and here for work and they have no intentions of staying. Although some do mostly for the weather followed by other opportunities.

Same for the Americans who pour through Europe every summer. Most go for a vacation and nothing more. As an American living in Europe I was the odd one.

But fair point. The Taoists were referring to a time when I couldn't be in Shanghai or in Berlin in less than 10 hours.

[gzregorz]

Yes it’s a thread on African slaves being traded and moved to the Americas, as I have come to understand it was ppl from the western areas of the African continent that was taken? But there supposedly was an much bigger and long enduring slave businesses by the Arabs/middle easterners of ppl from the eastern parts of Africa..some say it’s still in practice ?

Not exactly. Exterminate All the Brutes (the documentary) covers 600 years of history of which African slavery is included. But it isn't a thread solely on African slavery as much as the work put together by Raoul Peck.

Probably best to watch it before coming to conclusions. A lot of history and topics are covered many of which most Europeans (and North Americans) are completely unaware of.

It may not be for everyone but I plan on watching the whole thing again and reading some of books it was based on because so much is covered so quickly that there is no way to pick up everything in one viewing. I am sure others here will enjoy it as well.

[Trick]

Yes I’ve no chance for now to watch it, I hope it Name names and not generalize just saying European or for that matter Arab slavetrade. Who where the direct traders who owned the ships ?...not just which flag it sailed with....There should be no collective shaming here, I would dare as the other poster of this thread said “poll out from my arse” the figure that for example 99.99% of the ppl of Europe had nothing to do with slave trade/slave owning.......name the names, there must be records for the serious researcher to explore?

[Steve James]

There are plenty of books about which European countries were involved. Specific people were the kings and Queens who ran the countries and the companies such as Lloyd's of London the the Dutch East India company. The name of every slave owner is also known. There are ship records. All are available to serious researchers as primary sources.

However, you aren't going to do any research at all. Right? You thought the video and thread was about Africans.

Btw and fwiw, I'm an American. I had nothing to do with Europeans or African slave trades. That's on them. However, once Africans were bought here, it became Americans enslaving Americans. Slave traders and owners should have been exterminated. Loved the Haitian Revolution. There needs to be a movie about it.

Anyway, Ragnar had plenty of slaves.

If anyone is Really interested, there's a fairly robust database that's been put together about the African slave trade. The biggest problem is that it's mostly in English. Well, I mean that there is a lot of information written in French, Spanish, and Portuguese. However, the discussions about the trade often centers on the English speaking colonies. Anyway,

Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database
Director: David Eltis (Emory University)

The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, originally published as a CD-ROM in 1999, has been available in a new and greatly expanded format on an open access website since December, 2008 and is periodically updated as new information becomes available. It is located at http://www.slavevoyages.org. It includes detailed information on 35,000 transatlantic slave trading voyages that occurred between 1520 and 1866 as well as estimates of the overall size and direction of the trade. Detailed personal information on over 90,000 Africans removed from captured slave ships in the nineteenth century, including their African names, is accessible at http://www.african-origins.org. David Eltis and David Richardson’s Atlas of the Transatlantic Slave Trade (New Haven, 2010) draws heavily on slavevoyages.org and african-origins.org. Slavevoyages.org has recently completed a recode and is now proceeding with additional development that will provide access to a database on the intra-American traffic. This three year project, supported by the National Endowment for the Humanities, Emory University, the Universities of California at Irvine and Santa Cruz, and the Hutchins Center for African & African American Research, will underwrite the site’s sustainability over the next decade and will be completed in 2018. Further development on identification of the people involved in the transatlantic slave around the Atlantic basins is also underway supported by the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation.

[Trick]

. You thought the video and thread was about African

the thread very quickly went on that track -Europe/Africa/Americas slavery......Anyway, Yes that’s good, boiling it down to who were the real personas behind the slavetrade..the west India companies(did the east India companies trade ppl too? Possible), Loyds of London are starting points to narrow it down for search of the ppl,behind the from Europe/Britain slavetrade at that time. And as mentioned, New York as an financial and commanding hub of the trade in the Americas, there must be records of which institutions running the show..............And Lodbrok, well it’s disputed if he actually was a real person(very little actual records to go on from that time period),but yes it’s a focus on an person and not an whole region of ppl(Scandinavia)....

[Steve James]

Actually, the thread is about a film that discusses European colonization --including India, Asia, and the Americas. Imo, you're stuck on the African slave aspect. You haven't seen the film, so you can't know about the subject matter. It's true that the film doesn't make the colonizers look good. Otoh, there are plenty of films that do.

Afa record, there are plenty records. Any American can name lots of slave owners. They were very important people. Anyway, the point is that you need to look them up yourself --not wait for some film you can't see to provide them. Afa Ragnar, we "know" there was someone with that name, just as we know there was a "Jesus." Now, afa what he did or didn't do, that's a whole nother story. Was there a Beowulf? I dunno. But, I don't have to believe there was a Grendel.

We know that there was an historical Rollo who came to rule France (er Normandy). The Vikings show got that sort of right, along with Ivor the boneless. But they mix up the historical periods. Anyway, I brought up Ragnar only because plenty of Norsemen engaged in slavery. They also stole and colonized land in what's now the British Isles. They wiped out monasteries and villages and took captives which they sold. They even traded with Muslims and Africans. Sure, we can talk about the Trans-Saharan slave trade --but the slaves came in all colors. Anyway, what do you think ... about this?

Researchers in Sweden have found Arabic characters woven into burial costumes from Viking boat graves. The discovery raises new questions about the influence of Islam in Scandinavia, writes journalist Tharik Hussain.

They were kept in storage for more than 100 years, dismissed as typical examples of Viking Age funeral clothes.

But a new investigation into the garments - found in 9th and 10th Century graves - has thrown up groundbreaking insights into contact between the Viking and Muslim worlds.

Patterns woven with silk and silver thread have been found to spell the words "Allah" and "Ali".

The breakthrough was made by textile archaeologist Annika Larsson of Uppsala University while re-examining the remnants of burial costumes from male and female boat and chamber graves originally excavated in Birka and Gamla Uppsala in Sweden in the late 19th and mid-20th centuries.

[Trick]

I’ll begin with Ragnar.
Ragnar was supposed to have lived in the 9th century however the stories on him came a couple of hundred years later, 400 I think?
The only written records that may have the best accuracy in terms when they were raised and the stories they tell and factuality of the story are the Rune-stones, and as I understand there are no such runestones on Ragnar Lodbrok.
The Icelandic sagas were written much later, they came on paper.
Beowulf were written in England but it’s story plays out in Denmark, but there(in Denmark)are no runestones or otherwise on any Beowulf, it’s too most probably an fictional story.
Much much later Shakespeare wrote the play Hamlet an fictional danish prince.
Perhaps the Ragnar story had that intention too, and finally made it come true, becoming a play.

More on vikings and written stuff - The cloth that made headlines...but were quickly “forgotten”. It came forth a couple of years ago at the time when the huge wave of refugees entered Sweden, mostly Muslim.
According to the textile archeologist she saw the word Allah embodied on the cloth that were found at the Birka site.
Actually the pattern is not featured as written with an capital A and then “llah” according to the one archeologist that wanted to see the word ALLAH the cloth embroidered with kufic writing, yes, most probably wanted to see, she seem to have been too inspired and exalted by the new wave of immigrants coming from Muslim counties at the time of her “discovery”.
The “Allah” embroidered cloth has been debunked by non sensationalist experts.....however even if there would have been a cloth with the word Allah embroider with silk and silver threads on it, it would not be very sensational, such an cloth with silver and silk embroidery would have been an very exclusive gift to bring back home from Constantinople.
Loads of Scandinavians had been to Constantinople back in the Viking ages, hell there where an Viking chieftain that managed to pull together an huge armada that set sail for Persia with the hope of conquer that empire, it failed miserable he even tried a second time but that failed even worse.

As for seeing godly writings here and there, I once read that the mirror image of the Coca Cola logo spells out in Arabic something about God

Ok, stepping forward.
Exterminate all brutes -the TV show, as I believe is more or less based on Sven Lindquist’s books, and the title for the show is taken from his book “Utrota varenda jävel” wich in its English edition got the name “Exterminate all brutes” which have roots in the novel “heart of darkness” that plays out in Africa(that story was adapted by Francis Coppola however his movie plays out in Vietnam)
Lindquist wrote his “Exterminate all Brutes” while in Africa, were he also wrote the “Desert Divers”. Both dealing with the colonialism of that continent
For some time he traveled and resettled to Australia and wrote Terra Nullius which deals with the colonization of that continent.
He traveled in south/latin Americas, and he traveled and stayed for periods in east Asia(mainly China)

Actually I wrote about this, the authors extensive travel to most of earths continent in my first post in this thread and did not focusing on Africa/america, that focus came by someone else

Anyway, yes it would seem the TV series pick from a couple of Sven Lindquists books and by so not entirely focusing on African slave trade and colonization on that continent....., I will judge it when I have the chance to watch the series.......However reading Lindquist’s books I think would be more recommendable.....I will try that first