Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:19 pm

I was just watching this. Maybe you'd be interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYc97J2MZIo
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:30 pm

Will have to watch again if/when I get through the string theory book.

At first glance it sounds too simple or conceptual.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:48 am

Ok, it may be conceptually simple, but it's useful --perhaps particularly to the theories of strings --which are impossible to measure. I.e., physics depends on measurements like velocity, distance, size, temperature, etc, and our ability to make predictions from them.

How do we know how fast light travels? No one has ever seen light travel. (Turn flashlight on in dark room; do you see the beam travel?) But, are predictions (of the time it would take a photon to get from here to anywhere) purely conceptual? Not really; we can measure. The trick (i.e., science) is to figure out exactly what to measure/test and how to measure/test it. That's the ultimate problem with string theories. They're impossible to test by measurement.

What instrument can we make to "see" or measure light? What's it made of that can hold a photon (timeless particle propagated in waveforms) in position, or divide one? We can separate beams of light into photons, and even force individual photons into beams. But, can we hold down a single photon in a single place in time in order to "see" what it's made of?

So, it's possible to conceive strings, but conceptually impossible to have an empirical way to measure one/them. Of course, that means your guess is as good as anyone else's. That's not a discouragement either. A leading string and brane theorist was a plumber before studying physics. Ah, yeah, look up Leonard Susskind. Anyway, constructor theories are ways to figure out the most promising experiments for conceptual problems like strings.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:59 am

ah ok so they're related.

I'm getting a lost in the God Equation book now, but if I can paraphrase somewhat correctly, there is math in the string theories, but it involves cancelling out "infinities" on two sides of the equation. This might be why it's called "super symmetry" (recently saw this idea on Big Bang Theory and totally thought they made up garbage, but "super symmetry" turned out to be the actual name).

IIRC, Kaku says that there is very difficult, tedious math for quantum mechanics, but it doesn't have the "elegance" of E=mc*c.

....

on a tangent, I was reading that all EMR (electromagnetic radiation) waves (like radio, tv, UV, visible light) travel at the speed of light. I don't know how we know that.

on another tangent, Kaku also pointed out most science has to take measurement indirectly (e.g., we know what the sun is made of, what the temps are, but we can't actually take a "sample" of the sun to take the measurements).

I'm not sure if I'm absorbing the story... will probably have to re-read the book.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:26 pm

I was reading that all EMR (electromagnetic radiation) waves (like radio, tv, UV, visible light) travel at the speed of light. I don't know how we know that.


It's a claim, but how would you prove it false? One way to prove it's true is simply to measure. Of course, the deeper question is why both arrive at the same time. It's not really about the speed of light, but the speed of causality. I.e., shine a beam of light at an object, we only know it has arrived at an object if we see/measure it. That means a two way trip, right? We have to beam it, then record it. But, how do we know that it didn't beam out at one speed and return at another? So, we can predict the one-way speed of light (or electromagnetic waves), but we can't measure it directly. Does that make sense?
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Tom on Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:58 pm

Columbia University physicist (and string theorist) Brian Greene was recently on Lex Fridman's podcast talking about time, causality, the current lack of experimental verification for string theory (technically making it "string hypothesis"), and suggestions for how strings might be verified/measured. All-in-all, a fascinating and wide-ranging conversation.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98HZanvAJ8Y
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:23 am

Thanks a lot. Will try to get to this one as well.

Hope you guys end up reading The God Equation.

Yes, if we're not talking about IMA, I expect RSF to also be "physics book club" 8-) ;D
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:15 pm

it's funny to think about his physics-based description of freedom and free will (there isn't such a thing since your thoughts are particles moving, governed by universal physics laws) and apply that notion to the free-dumb-ers (so basically they absolutely cannot make any other choices other than to end up winning Herman Cain Awards; some limited numbers can "come to their senses" before it's too late, but the others are just "fated" to win the award due to how the physics governs their particles). LOL.

back to the quantum gravity, I got to a certain point of this book, so more or less:
- black holes exist (first theorized in the 1700s. !) because the escape velocity (speed needed to escape the gravity of that celestial object) is so high due to such gravity, it's basically the speed of light, and so even light cannot escape.
- but Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle basically means .... some kind of quantum radiation can still possibly escape
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:53 pm

but Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle basically means .... some kind of quantum radiation can still possibly escape


I'm not sure about that being a result of Heisenberg's principle. Einstein's math predicted that black holes should exist. But, he didn't believe that they existed in nature. Anyone can basically understand that, if gravity affects light, the enough gravity should be able to stop it. All it would take is something with a massive gravitational field. Well, that can be calculated. However, we just saw a photo of a black hole recently --ok, not the hole, but the stuff swirling around the event horizon.
Anyway, if you were able to get sucked into a black hole, the experience for you would be entirely different from that of an observer.

Afa the radiation, btw, it's now called Hawking radiation, after the guy who calculated that --for complicated reasons I can't explain-- some radiation does escape a black hole. The conclusion is that black holes experience entropy and eventually die.
Last edited by Steve James on Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:35 am

Back to hypersonics. Here's a scientist with a different take on the weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTEhG8zzftQ
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:20 pm

Keeping in mind I’m bad at science and this stuff is hard to follow…
I’ll try to paraphrase more.

Hawking wanted to study quantum corrections to gravity.
That’s too difficult so he decided to study quantum corrections to the atoms in the black hole.
The black hole is black because it absorbs everything.
That violates the uncertainty principle of quantum theory (I think this came from the Heisenberg uncertainty but will need to go back and check).

So he thought some quantum radiation must escape.

I haven’t really gotten farther yet…

The bit about black holes dying. I wonder if that’s due to energy escaping.

Also….I can’t follow why
1. Everything isn’t going into the black hole.
2. The Universe is expanding (they think).
Those things seem at odds.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:45 pm

wellll read a little farther, and it does seem that

some electrons or anti-electrons escaping means:
- over trillions of years, the gravity of the black hole reduces so it can no longer be a black hole
- subatomic particles are just going out in the universe to where? nobody seems to know.

... which also leads to the question of what's in the black hole?
they at first thought it's a dot of infinite gravity. supposedly this doesn't make sense for the math (WTF).

but a spiral structure that's held by centrifugal forces so it doesn't collapse on itself to infinite gravity could make sense.

which leads to the wormhole idea popular in science fiction but taken seriously by physicists because the ideas are "solutions to Einstein's equations" (also WTF).

if you could somehow go through
- you could maybe travel to another universe altogether. a shortcut in space time.
- you could travel to another point in space time in your own universe. so back in time for example.

in addition to anti-matter, there is negative matter (which gravity repulses not attracts), and negative energy (no idea yet).

sometimes it's hard to believe this shit is studied by and theorized by actual smart people (and paves the way for modern tech).

anyway, that's a big digression from the UAP off-topic topic, lol.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:52 pm

So he thought some quantum radiation must escape.


Wow, simply put, imagine for every particle there is a corresponding particle that is connected. They can differ in spin, but they're always connected --even if they're very far apart. (Hence, "spooky action at a distance.)" Well, what happens when a particle (and particle is a bad way to put it) or "information" falls into a black hole. Hawking theorized that a part might get stuck at the event horizon. Yeah, you're right that, based on probability, some of that information (as radiation) will be reflected (bad term again) back out. This has been confirmed through measurement, but Hawking explained how to look for it.

Anyway, though the amount of radiation is small, it means that black holes can shrink over time. It makes physical sense doesn't it? I mean, if it's absorbing stuff, it's gaining more mass, but it's also leaking. The problem is that no one knows the physics of inside a black hole where there is no time. Um, don't ask me.:)

Also….I can’t follow why
1. Everything isn’t going into the black hole.
2. The Universe is expanding (they think).
Those things seem at odds.


Why may not be a valid question. 1. Space is big. Black holes form when neutron stars collapse. There are only X number of neutron stars, and none near us, thankfully. 1a. There are super-massive black holes at the core of every galaxy (afawk). That's also been confirmed for our galaxy. So, it's thought that they are actually necessary for galaxies to form. I.e., they are creative forces.

2. Our spiral galaxy, from observation, is expanding and will eventually collide with another galaxy. That can also be measured. Explaining the expansion of the universe is different. Space, itself, is expanding. The common explanation uses a balloon. Just remember that the universe doesn't have an empty core. I.e., imagine the universe painted on the surface of a balloon, and you blow it up. Everything on the surface will move apart. Black holes will also be on that surface. (And, that might affect #1 above).

What's outside the balloon? What's it expanding into? It's not "space" or is it outside space? How do we measure that? What energy is causing the universe expand at an increasing rate. Unknown. They call it "dark," but it's just that we can't see it. But, no worries about black holes sucking everything. Btw, look up vacuum decay.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:07 pm

It really makes me think of

Last edited by everything on Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby wiesiek on Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:39 am

worth to note, that we don`t know "universal physics laws"
all what we get, so far - is just : "local physic laws" , or "earthlin phisic laws"
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