Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:19 am

I guess it depends what you mean. I'll try to paraphrase some of the above thread (most of which I was reading from Kaku's book The God Equation) again.

There is Newtonian/"classical" physics with gravity. We can intuitively confirm our experience with it, including in MA.

There is Eintein relativity with spacetime. This is what enables the engineers to set the geosync satellite time correctly (adjusting in opposite directions due to less gravity and higher speed) so your phone GPS works. This is really hard to understand (at least for me, but probably for most people).

There is quantum stuff.

There are attempts to reach a unified theory to resolve the above.

All of these things apply to the "universe" and not just "Earth". In that sense, there is only "universal physics laws" to the extent that we know them.

Since there isn't really a successful unified theory, I think we can also say there still isn't "universal physics laws" that can explain a lot of known unknowns (what is in the black hole? how about a wormhole? are there other universes? could they be time travel? were does the Hawking radiation go? what do we know about anti-matter, dark matter, negative matter, negative energy? is there other intelligent life in the universe? and on the UAP topic: what are those UAP and how can they "defy gravity" like that? etc.).

It might be arrogant to assume we know a lot, but overall, it seems we, er, physicists, would say what we know does apply to the universe (is universal), and not just earth.

but back to the UAP, do they obey any laws we know of? It doesn't seem like there is public information from the world's top physicists. They probably don't want to study that topic. So we (non physicists) can't really know.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:35 am

wiesiek wrote:worth to note, that we don`t know "universal physics laws"
all what we get, so far - is just : "local physic laws" , or "earthlin phisic laws"


:) but how would you know? And, if you did, wouldn't they still be physical laws applicable to earthlings? If earthling physical laws allow us to fly a helicopter on Mars, does that mean we know Martian physical laws or that the laws are the same?

It's true that we don't know all physical laws. But all the physical "laws" we know are universal afa we can "know." There may be physics that we don't know, but if they're not knowable to earthlings, we'll never know them --because they're not knowable. If, otoh, they're knowable to earthlings, they're universal until proven otherwise.

Hey, there may be a limit to human understanding; but, we can only understand within that limit. So, I agree that the laws we identify are universal as far as we're concerned.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:39 am

back to the UAP, do they obey any laws we know of?


The question is whether they disobey any laws we know of. That's why people suggest they're aliens. People can't explain what they see.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:57 pm

They "disobey" our engineering abilities. Those G forces, if the calculations on acceleration are correct from correct readings from the Navy jet instruments, would supposedly rip apart our jets.

Also, not sure about the faster than sound w/ no sonic boom thing. That seems to be a disobeying of our understanding of physics laws.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... onic-boom/
When an aircraft increases its speed, pressure waves build up on it and eventually coalesce into a single shockwave. When the plane outruns that shockwave and travels faster than the speed of sound in air, it causes a sudden change in pressure, which in turn creates the sonic boom. There’s no publicly available scientific data to suggest any aircraft can break the sound barrier without producing a sonic boom; while engineers can take steps to try to reduce sonic booms, physics says it’s impossible to outright eliminate it.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:14 pm

perhaps the messaging and secrecy aspects are more interesting than the physics aspects (since roughly speaking our understanding of physics seems to be not too great afawk. physicists seem to have a lot more interesting questions than answers.).

1. the US Navy confirmed that leak footage is real.
2. the US Navy also said it should not have been leaked/released.
3. the USAF apparently has other footage or observations from instruments, but it seems like those observations are not release/declassified.
4. presumably the USAF has more observations than the Navy if it's sensing "stuff in the air" more.
5. what the heck is US Space Force? I guess Space Force is way too new to have much information, but presumably over time it would have the most information.
6. why would anyone with "important secrets" want the public to know? It doesn't seem like it would be a good idea to make certain info public assuming they are trying to be able to have/use military secrets of some kind of defensive value. Not sure why a former intelligence official would reveal a few things (about having a lot more information).... although doesn't seem like any real information is released.
7. if there are any scientists who worked at Area 51 starting in 1955, they would have to be really old or deceased now. If they knew anything unusual, where are their reports? Who has access now?
8. this kind of just goes on and on with no end ... may as well just read/watch sci-fi... like the show "Roswell" about the alien teens crash landing there, then growing up with human teens and having lots of alien/human teen angst, lol.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby windwalker on Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:18 pm

spooky action at a distance

"entanglements".


:-\
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:34 pm

Also, not sure about the faster than sound w/ no sonic boom thing.


A sonic boom/s (loudest) at the point the object/vehicle breaks the sound barrier in the atmosphere. The closer to the ground, the louder it is. You won't hear the craft coming, but hear the compressed sound catching up after it passes. The sound travels in a cone shape with the plane at the front. The lower to the ground the greater surface area of that cone. As the craft goes higher, the area of sound that hits the ground decreases.

Yeah, the question is why nobody reports a boom or sound of air movement. That is where the rules seem to be broken. The object can be seen. Lightning causes thunder because it disturbs the atmosphere. If something can move through the atmosphere without disturbing it, the issue is more than a matter of engineering.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:05 am

This might interest you, and it's recent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A81dpCBSohY
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:02 am

Steve James wrote:
Also, not sure about the faster than sound w/ no sonic boom thing.


A sonic boom/s (loudest) at the point the object/vehicle breaks the sound barrier in the atmosphere. The closer to the ground, the louder it is. You won't hear the craft coming, but hear the compressed sound catching up after it passes. The sound travels in a cone shape with the plane at the front. The lower to the ground the greater surface area of that cone. As the craft goes higher, the area of sound that hits the ground decreases.

Yeah, the question is why nobody reports a boom or sound of air movement. That is where the rules seem to be broken. The object can be seen. Lightning causes thunder because it disturbs the atmosphere. If something can move through the atmosphere without disturbing it, the issue is more than a matter of engineering.


it seems that should make the UAP interesting enough for scientists to take a look.

alternatively, maybe something is wrong with the sensors and "seeing is not believing". in that case, engineers should be able to troubleshoot (and assume current laws of physics apply) without needing some new theory.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:13 am

Steve James wrote:This might interest you, and it's recent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A81dpCBSohY


Thanks I'll have to rewatch.

Perhaps those experimental results point to the idea that the Hawking radiation escaping from the black holes ends up ... as mass.

I couldn't quite follow the weak nuclear force = electromangetism. Will have to revisit.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:15 am

these make me think of a few pop culture references.

In SEE (on HBO), they call the Sun "the god-flame".

In Big Bang Theory, early on, Penny asks Leonard during their first (non)date, "So what's new in physics?". He says "nothing much. ... really nothing is new since about 1930... what's new at The Cheesecake Factory?".
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:23 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrCfT9r_tsk

is streaming live as of this writing. i guess it'll just be another episode in a bit.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby Steve James on Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:52 am

Most cosmologists are interested in nothing more than finding intelligent life outside Earth. You read Kaku; you think he wouldn't investigate what he could research?

Afa the weak nuclear force/interaction being the same as electro-magnetism, put it like this; the strong nuclear force holds atoms together; the weak nuclear force radiates --er, is the source of most radiation.

I can't explain why it's the same as electromagnetic force. Then again, I can't explain why light, magnetism, and electricity are the same force.:)
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:28 pm

Steve James wrote:Most cosmologists are interested in nothing more than finding intelligent life outside Earth. You read Kaku; you think he wouldn't investigate what he could research?

Afa the weak nuclear force/interaction being the same as electro-magnetism, put it like this; the strong nuclear force holds atoms together; the weak nuclear force radiates --er, is the source of most radiation.

I can't explain why it's the same as electromagnetic force. Then again, I can't explain why light, magnetism, and electricity are the same force.:)


thinking they think it'd be bad for their credibility, or not as helpful as the other "serious" work, or has no good theoretical or empirical work to do. but probably in private they have some interesting thoughts to share.
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Re: Theories (wild conjecture) on the UAP

Postby everything on Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:54 pm

Steve James wrote:Most cosmologists are interested in nothing more than finding intelligent life outside Earth. You read Kaku; you think he wouldn't investigate what he could research?

Afa the weak nuclear force/interaction being the same as electro-magnetism, put it like this; the strong nuclear force holds atoms together; the weak nuclear force radiates --er, is the source of most radiation.

I can't explain why it's the same as electromagnetic force. Then again, I can't explain why light, magnetism, and electricity are the same force.:)


I can't either. I think some of it seems intuitive in steps, though.
We experience UV radiation indirectly even though (to human eyes) UV rays are not part of "visible light" (except in some cases after cataract surgery). So intuitively (through sunburn or whatnot), we know there are "rays" and "radiation" that can quickly harm us.

We can experience (indirectly) other EMR via radio waves (for 20th c radio or wifi signals "Dad, what happened to the wifi?!").

There are kid's science kits that can help you use magnets to spin coils that can then turn on a light or something like that. After that, it seems to get less intuitive. Light (visible light) is part of EMR, but stuff like https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science ... ory-light/ - I start to not understand it.
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