taiji ball peng and rollback

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taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby everything on Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:57 am

amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby windwalker on Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:09 pm

might help to explain some of the unexpected reactions. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UHS883_P60
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:55 pm

windwalker wrote:might help to explain some of the unexpected reactions. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UHS883_P60


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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby everything on Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:11 pm

lol really good demo. let's see that basketball do that under more pressure, though. ;D
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby Bao on Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:12 pm

Yeah, the stacked ball thing, that's the Galilean Cannon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean_cannon

I believe that it can help to explain and understand some the effect in Tai Chi, by understanding this mass - momentum transfer. I remember back in the earlier Tai Chi days when we studied how to return force, and discovering that using the body as a whole (and more or less not use the arms other than support) while redirecting an opponents force had the best effect. So what you want to do is to add your whole mass and its momentum to your opponent's own movement/force/momentum. If you use your arms only in an isolated manner, then you only add the movement from the arms, and not your whole mass. But it's when you'll get your whole mass behind your own counter movement, while timing and following your opponent's movement precisely, this is when you can achieve this massive, seemingly effortless strength, to bounce someone away.

Image


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHTIonsFiJc

Last edited by Bao on Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby windwalker on Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:53 am

Bao wrote:Yeah, the stacked ball thing, that's the Galilean Cannon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean_cannon

I believe that it can help to explain and understand some the effect in Tai Chi, by understanding this mass - momentum transfer. I remember back in the earlier Tai Chi days when we studied how to return force, and discovering that using the body as a whole (and more or less not use the arms other than support) while redirecting an opponents force had the best effect. So what you want to do is to add your whole mass and its momentum to your opponent's own movement/force/momentum. If you use your arms only in an isolated manner, then you only add the movement from the arms, and not your whole mass. But it's when you'll get your whole mass behind your own counter movement, while timing and following your opponent's movement precisely, this is when you can achieve this massive, seemingly effortless strength, to bounce someone away.





Is it ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qjTdSbOPkw

Hunyuan strength is stored within movement. This stored strength results in torque or martial velocity in each movement. That's why it's called oneness or whole body strength because the entire frame supplies torque to the limbs within each gesture.


http://www.yichuankungfu.com/cheuk-fung/hunyuan/

Would not agree with his explanation, nice demo ....
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby Bao on Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:09 am

Is it?
...oneness or whole body strength because the entire frame supplies torque to the limbs within each gesture.


I can’t really understand the difference between this and what I wrote. Though I can’t really see why torque is necessary to emphasize. I didn’t really see any torque in that video. Velocity as mentioned would be enough. I wrote: “get your whole mass behind your own counter movement” This implies moving the body as a whole.

I am not good at using scientific terminology.
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby everything on Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:21 am

One what we want mechanically.

One what we want “internally”.

2+2= 4+?
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby Bao on Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:51 am

everything wrote:One what we want mechanically.

One what we want “internally”.

2+2= 4+?



Personally, I don’t really separate external/internal, mechanics and internal aspects. In the internal arts, I don’t see how you could have one without the other.

For the outer to be correct, the internal must be there.

For the internal to work, the external must be able to express the internal.
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby GrahamB on Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:52 am

I wonder if by torque he meant the open and close of the joints.... I mean, it's not strictly torque, but has a similar feeling?
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:39 am

Of those commenting.

Can you do what was demonstrated?

If you can, can you explain it or comment on
what you feel is happening?

@bao,

In the clip he specifically mentions and draws a distinction between what you wrote and what he’s doing as to that he’s not using that method. Ie using his bodies “mass”

Don’t agree with his explanation of what he feels he’s doing, but he can do it
whether I agree or not doesn’t matter much. It is interesting.
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:58 am

windwalker wrote:.

Can you do what was demonstrated?


Looks simple enough to me. In fact I can teach literally anyone to do it in about five minutes.

If you can, can you explain it or comment on
what you feel is happening?



His demo partner is wildly overreacting to meaningless movements.
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:15 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qjTdSbOPkw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7T7jTPK9Wg

Both teachers demo what appears to be the same thing.
Explaining what is being done in different ways...

Demo partner's react as they do based on what they feel, as would most people,
in the demo using the same methods.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:18 am

oragami_itto wrote:
windwalker wrote:.

Can you do what was demonstrated?


Looks simple enough to me. In fact I can teach literally anyone to do it in about five minutes.

If you can, can you explain it or comment on
what you feel is happening?




His demo partner is wildly overreacting to meaningless movements.


If one can do it "whats shown in the demo"
Can they explain or comment on what they feel they'er doing ?
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Re: taiji ball peng and rollback

Postby windwalker on Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:29 am

Bao wrote:
Is it?
...oneness or whole body strength because the entire frame supplies torque to the limbs within each gesture.


I can’t really understand the difference between this and what I wrote. Though I can’t really see why torque is necessary to emphasize. I didn’t really see any torque in that video. Velocity as mentioned would be enough. I wrote: “get your whole mass behind your own counter movement” This implies moving the body as a whole.

I am not good at using scientific terminology.


If you listen to his commentary in the demo, he specifically says that he does not use his mass among other things.
Would not agree with his explanation, there are different ways to look at things....

If one can do it, how its explained "to me" doesn't really matter, its their work...
Like the teachers work, very interesting.
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