Russia Ukraine Situation

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Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby Quigga on Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:16 pm

So apparently the weaponized conflict began. One article I read mentioned there already being explosions to be heard in Kiev.

To all people who have relatives, friends, family in that geographical area I wish peace, calmness and hope.

Sun Tzu said, when you start a war, make sure it's over as quick as possible. That way you can still profit from the populace, infrastructure, agriculture etc. And lose less good standing with the public.

I hope no more people than required will be injured or killed and for children and women to be safe.

What does the situation do to your insides? What do you think and feel?
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby Bao on Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:20 am

Personally, I hate being political here on this board.

My feelings are very mixed. And they have been for a long time. The media generalises the issue and is only reporting a fraction of what is behind this shit. Now both sides are only dealing with propaganda and a lot of lies.

So we need to try to see the issue from all sides, and listen to Europe's, The USA, Russia and Ukraine's own stories.

Fact is that all of these regions and countries share responsibility for the situation right now.

Just take a look at it from Russia's point of view...

- Nato decided already in Warsaw 2016 to move military close to the Russian borders.
- Ukraine has had a civil war just in front of Russia's borders.
- Ukraine has a US backed Nazi regime committing a cultural genocide against Russian minorities.
- Ukraine has not respected the Minsk treaty.

These are just facts, easy for anyone to confirm. But of course, there's a lot more to this story, from both sides. Ukraine has dealt with its own crisis, a civil war and has had eight years of violence and instability. They certainly don't want any further or greater war. Why the USA keeps pushing and pushing and tries to bring Russia into a corner is certainly understandable from their own point of view.

Will it escalate to a full blown war? No, I don't think so. At least if Nato and USA don't want it to escalate the crisis further.
Last edited by Bao on Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby origami_itto on Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:44 am

Bao wrote:- Ukraine has a US backed Nazi regime committing a cultural genocide against Russian minorities.

These are just facts, easy for anyone to confirm.


Please provide a source for this claim.
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby Bao on Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:49 am

oragami_itto wrote:
Bao wrote:- Ukraine has a US backed Nazi regime committing a cultural genocide against Russian minorities.

These are just facts, easy for anyone to confirm.


Please provide a source for this claim.


Which part of it?
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby Bao on Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:52 am

That the government is a pack of neo nazis and US backed should be well known. There are lots of articles from western mainstream media covering this fact.

NEO-NAZIS NOT TOP OF MIND FOR SENATE DEMOCRATS PUSHING WEAPONS FOR UKRAINE
WHILE SENATE DEMOCRATS consider a way forward to send Ukraine hundreds of millions of dollars so it can buy new weapons, some of the most influential advocates are neglecting measures to make sure they don’t wind up with the country’s notorious neo-Nazis.
https://theintercept.com/2022/02/18/ukr ... -menendez/


Yes, There Are Bad Guys in the Ukrainian Government
The uncomfortable truth is that a sizeable portion of Kiev’s current government — and the protesters who brought it to power — are, indeed, fascists.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/03/18/ye ... overnment/

Neo-Nazi threat in new Ukraine: NEWSNIGHT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
Last edited by Bao on Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby Bao on Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:07 am

Again, that the Donbass is subject to oppression, persecution and a cultural genocide is what Russia says. To understand the situation in the eastern parts of Ukraine, you really need to read some history. It doesn't fit the common narrative here in the West. But really, do we understand better what is happening there than them?

Just a recent news:

MOSCOW, February 19. /TASS/. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s claims to the effect statements about genocide in Donbass are laughable are totally unacceptable, the Russian Foreign Ministry told TASS on Saturday.

"German leaders are not in a position to ridicule genocide issues. This is unacceptable, in particular in the light of Germany’s historical experience in such matters as mass extermination of people and the spread of misanthropic ideologies," the Russian Foreign Ministry said in the wake of Olaf’s statement.

On Saturday, Scholz told the Munich Security Conference that the term genocide was unapplicable to the situation in Donbass and described such statements as "laughable."

Earlier, speaking at a joint news conference with Scholz Russian President Vladimir Putin used the term genocide in relation to the situation in this region.

On Friday, the leaders of the Lugansk and Donetsk people’s republics have declared a campaign of evacuation of civilians to Russia, including the Rostov Region, in view of the growing risk of hostilities. Later a number of other regions declared their readiness to host evacuees from Donbass.

German chancellor’s claims about genocide in Donbass unacceptable


https://tass.com/world/1406425
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby windwalker on Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:28 am

Having served in the US military in Germany part of the NATO force in the 70s,
Never quiet understood why NATO is still there after the WARsaw pact was disbanded.

Just take a look at it from Russia's point of view...

- Nato decided already in Warsaw 2016 to move military close to the Russian borders.
- Ukraine has had a civil war just in front of Russia's borders.
- Ukraine has a US backed Nazi regime committing a cultural genocide against Russian minorities.
- Ukraine has not respected the Minsk treaty.


Russia is protecting its territorial integrity, no choice in it’s reaction.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby windwalker on Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:48 am

If you cannot find the truth right where you are,
where else do you expect to find it?

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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby wiesiek on Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:05 am

unbelievable,
do you, guys getting paychecks from Władimir or are children in the fog ?
-dropjaw-
Russia invade independent country in EUROPE,
Their politics is straight forward from Czar Mikołaj ,and never changed/ing/.
Anything more is just wishful thinkin`,
Imperator(s) from Kremlin with "human face", haha, `cmon
give me a break.
-argh-
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby windwalker on Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:12 am

wiesiek wrote:unbelievable,
do you, guys getting paychecks from Władimir or are children in the fog ?
-dropjaw-
Russia invade independent country in EUROPE,
Their politics is straight forward from Czar Mikołaj ,and never changed/ing/.
Anything more is just wishful thinkin`,
Imperator(s) from Kremlin with "human face", haha, `cmon
give me a break.
-argh-


What is unbelievable, this constant demonization on this site of those with different opinions.

comman man,

many talk about democracy, freedom seemingly not understanding what it's about.

a post on another site

Putin as president of the Russian Republic has repeatedly stated that Russia cannot tolerate NATO nukes in Ukraine because that's 5 minutes from launch to incineration of Moscow, a mere 280 miles from the Ukrainian border.

Remember in 1962 the "Cuban Missile Crisis"?

Those missiles were about 1,105 miles from Washington DC and were much more cumbersome to launch and were not as fast or accurate as missiles are today and that was an intolerable situation for Kennedy's military.

Last edited by windwalker on Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby Giles on Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:37 am

It's true that, back in the 1990s, Russia was given some clear oral promises that NATO wouldn't expand into the east. And that these promises were not kept to. That's part of the story, irrespective of whether Putin has gradually mutated into a full-on dictator, or not.

On another note, however: "genocide" is a term that gets used in some very incorrect and ultimately dangerous ways at the moment. VERY dangerous and also tendentious, because if this term starts to get instrumentalized, used wrongly (as propaganda) and hence also devalued, then we will lack the proper term and the awareness/consciousness if genocide really is committed. What the Nazis did was, obviously, genocide. What extreme Hutu factions did in Ruanda was genocide. What the Serbs did in Srebrenica was genocide, or at least bordered on it. The claim/assertion that "genocide" has taken place in the east of Ukraine in recent years or weeks or whatever is absolute bullcrap. Whatever other rights and wrongs, and horribleness, has been taking place. Even acts that can be described or be judged as "war crimes" do NOT constitute genocide. Unless they are... genocide. And I find it disappointing that some on RSF who clearly are not stupid people are now putting this claim around, or passing it on. For whatever reasons. Please reconsider.
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby windwalker on Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:47 am

Giles wrote:It's true that, back in the 1990s, Russia was given some clear oral promises that NATO wouldn't expand into the east. And that these promises were not kept to. That's part of the story, irrespective of whether Putin has gradually mutated into a full-on dictator, or not.

.


From your perspective why did Germany not reacted sooner and more decisively along with the other countries in the region aligned with NATO against Russia.

What should Russia have done with the expansion of NATO, an organization that claims "it" as it's foe

could it be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O24rulfjA8U
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby Quigga on Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:55 am

As I'm not affiliated with any one country and am not in the position to order or implement various near and far reaching policies, all's good :-) Who knows what's going on in the background. I suspect what we don't know is much bigger than what we know about this conflict (or what the public is willing to accept, with leaked information everywhere).
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby windwalker on Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:54 am

Quigga wrote:As I'm not affiliated with any one country and am not in the position to order or implement various near and far reaching policies, all's good :-) Who knows what's going on in the background. I suspect what we don't know is much bigger than what we know about this conflict (or what the public is willing to accept, with leaked information everywhere).


the history is interesting...

According to Peskov, Russian President Vladimir Putin has expressed his preparedness to engage in discussions with his Ukrainian counterpart, with a focus on obtaining a guarantee of neutral status and the promise of no weapons on its territory.


https://www.rt.com/russia/550505-kremli ... ands-kiev/

from a post

As The USSR devolved, the former Warsaw Pact countries of Eastern Europe were told to go their own way, NATO promised not to expand into Russian border countries as a precondition to opening up Berlin as The USSR ended.

But, that promise was broken numerous times. Then, Ukraine officially dumped the Russian language, leaving the Russian speaking eastern part of Ukraine isolated, so they formed their own republics.

Then, rather than negotiating a peaceful solution per The Minsk Agreement of 2014/15,
Ukraine began shelling these areas, to the point that hundreds of thousands were forced to flee to Russia.

Article 5 of NATO means The U.S. would be bound to fighting Russia, DIRECTLY, for the first time, to defend any NATO member,
including those in eastern Europe, should a stray shell land in their territory.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russia Ukraine Situation

Postby wiesiek on Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:39 am

pażiwiom uwidim,
I would like to remind you , that Poland had pact with western part of the word before NATO,
and
what happen in 1939?
as usual - shit happened, Albion and France declared war, but nothing really happen,
until small shitty fellow, with funny mustache conquered 1/2 of the France...
Well,
even today lot of peps have hard time with believing, that unfulfilled student of the Art Academy was able to turn nation of scientist, philosophers and artist into WW.
History, like all humans endeavors is circlin`,
in combed clove shithead from the West took his revenge in `39,
now botoxed monster from the East takes his,
when rest of the word is makin` shit while watching and commenting CNN. :(
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