Tokyo Vice

Rum, beer, women, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Tokyo Vice

Postby everything on Fri May 06, 2022 7:33 pm

really good. if any of you lived in Japan in the 90s .... maybe even more interesting.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby yeniseri on Fri May 06, 2022 11:30 pm

I was mainly in Okinawa (MCAS, Futenma) but "visited" mainland Japan a few times.

Mizu shobai is the closest I can come to Tokyo Vice with all the delights, love hotels up da yin yang in those days.
All the sensual, exotic, erotic, etc one can handle without overdosing on one own pleasure. ;D Moderation was a good thang ;D back then.
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3502
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby Quigga on Sun May 08, 2022 3:44 am

Without over and underdosing pleasure, the middle can be hardly found

Never had a hooker. Escort Service is something I'd try

I was told to make sure she touches both hands to her ears :D
Enjoying the illusion is true freedom
Quigga
Wuji
 
Posts: 624
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:08 pm

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby yeniseri on Mon May 09, 2022 8:56 pm

Mizu shobai is more of an institution, a group identification of human pleasures more than just hookers!

At the external level, the women performed the traditional tasks assocaited with what is called "geisha culture" with levels of enjoyment along with the common and moral relationship entanglements. and they were part of the "salaryman" syndrome, where company guidelines allowed for use of certain benefits per the status and culture of the specific individuals. There was for a time, (I have heard and read ;D ) where men dressed as women, and becmae part of that gesiha culture , which was considered a debasement, similar to the Thai ladyboy syndrome.

This was 40 years ago so I am guessing things have changed but I havent heard much about this lately! There has been another syndrom of grown women dressing in school girl uniforms, or those having the looks of school girls in uniforms, where they are sought after by those skilled in marketing their desirable qualites for selective audience.
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3502
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue May 10, 2022 12:10 am

Geisha culture is certainly not the right term here. Maybe something made up by GIs? Geisha were never prositutues. Geisha/Oiran were once men, but not men who crossed dressed. Kabuki, on the other hand, started out as troops of women who acted on stage and also made money as prostitutes. They were outlawed very quickly and so men began playing the female roles and acting as prostitutes. There is a long history of cross-dressing in Japan, but it is not all tied to mizu shobai or vice versa. Nor is it tied to Geisha, although there are some cross-dressing geisha in the modern remake of Zatoichi by Beat (Kitano) Takeshi.

I read Adelstein's book when it first came out as a mutual friend recommended it. I was incredulous about some parts, as are some of his coworkers from that time. But, in my expereince, many Japanese will claim that things are "impossible" or "could not happen" when I know that they can. Anyway, I look forward to enjoying the show for what it is. Not everything is worth nitpicking, although the misuse of the word geisha is.
文武両道。

Lord Li requires one hundred gold coins per day!
User avatar
Ian C. Kuzushi
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby everything on Tue May 10, 2022 6:51 am

Think it’s the combination of topics and setting and the incredible story.

Yakuza conflicts
Night life
People “on the run”
Drugs
No Internet
Foreigners
Newspaper investigative journalism
Police balance with Yakuza
Who is the “bad guy”???? Someone? Everyone?
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue May 10, 2022 8:01 pm

"Who is the bad guy?"

This is so pertinent when thinking historically about the boryoku dantai/yakuza. The Yakuza came from two distinct groups, the bakuto (wandering gambler/gambling outfits) and the machi yakko. The bakuto were mostly thugs who exploited for profit, but the machi yakko, who were not samurai, but wore often oversized swords and flashy clothes with wild haircuts, were a product of the new castle towns and trade centers that began proliferating at the close of the Warring States (Sengoku) period. They could cause trouble, but also sometimes acted as a buffer between the townsfolk and marauding bushi, thereby becoming folk heroes. The yakuza, well known to be named after a losing hand of cards thus highlighting their romantically tragic existence, were an amalgam of these groups and would go on to adopt a code quite simmilar to that of the peacetime samurai, what would in hindsight be called bushido. For the yakuza it was called jingi. Jingi was also the same word used for the elaborate introductions yakuza would perform when meeting each other. It could be said that the last vestiges of the samurai codes (far more disparate and unevenly applied than generally thought) are only practiced by the yakuza. The yakuza, for much of their modern history, too, have been viewed in a mixed light, just like the machi yakko of old. They could extort, sure, but they also protected and supported the community when in need. The yakuza controlled black markets prevented a lot of starvation in the postwar, occupation years. They also did a lot of good after 3/11.
Last edited by Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue May 10, 2022 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
文武両道。

Lord Li requires one hundred gold coins per day!
User avatar
Ian C. Kuzushi
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby everything on Tue May 10, 2022 8:20 pm

Wow thanks for the info - that historical background makes it even more interesting.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue May 10, 2022 8:49 pm

No problem. I did some research on them some years back and have had a few run-ins.

If you like the yakuza as a source of entertainment, I recommend The Yakuza with Robert Mitchum. Old, but still so dang good. A timeless classic. Black Rain by Ridley Scott is also good.

Of course, my favorites are not Hollywood, but the above two are a nice segue. For the good good, I highly recommend Takeshi Kitano's early stuff with soundtracks by Joe Hisaishi. Sonatine and Fireworks are probably my favorites, but Violent Cop and Boiling Point are also great. For a trip down the historical and a bit of martial arts to boot, check out the old Zatoichi films starting Katsu Shintaro playing the eponymous blind swordsman/bakuto.
文武両道。

Lord Li requires one hundred gold coins per day!
User avatar
Ian C. Kuzushi
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby Kelley Graham on Wed May 11, 2022 10:16 am

started watching. good so far. appreciate the context provided here. thx.
Kelley Graham

https://sifuondemand.com
NeiJia Online Learning
User avatar
Kelley Graham
Administrator
 
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 3:32 pm
Location: Tucson AZ

Re: Tokyo Vice

Postby yeniseri on Thu May 12, 2022 11:40 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Geisha culture is certainly not the right term here. Maybe something made up by GIs? Geisha were never prositutues. Geisha/Oiran were once men, but not men who crossed dressed. Kabuki, on the other hand, started out as troops of women who acted on stage and also made money as prostitutes. They were outlawed very quickly and so men began playing the female roles and acting as prostitutes. There is a long history of cross-dressing in Japan, but it is not all tied to mizu shobai or vice versa. Nor is it tied to Geisha, although there are some cross-dressing geisha in the modern remake of Zatoichi by Beat (Kitano) Takeshi.

I read Adelstein's book when it first came out as a mutual friend recommended it. I was incredulous about some parts, as are some of his coworkers from that time. But, in my expereince, many Japanese will claim that things are "impossible" or "could not happen" when I know that they can. Anyway, I look forward to enjoying the show for what it is. Not everything is worth nitpicking, although the misuse of the word geisha is.


Never said that geisha were prostitutes! Mizu shobai initially was about what was traditional Japanese entertainment but after the 1950's or so (just guessing date here, anywhere after Waorld War 2!) ;D ;D ) it changed to what may be considered a salarymans' paradise where money from the modern day businessman's expense account changed a direction to the many variations of pleasure and enjoyment per the individual choice of the client.
Last edited by yeniseri on Thu May 12, 2022 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3502
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA


Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests