sway with me

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sway with me

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:11 am

Interesting workshop, fun back ground music ;D



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsBdVqrO8ZI

Adam Mizner Prague - Sway with me


Very good skill sets demoed,
looks like a good time for all... :)
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: sway with me

Postby GrahamB on Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:08 pm

Damn, I thought this was a joke put together by somebody to funny music... but apparently it's real? lol.

-shrug-
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Re: sway with me

Postby Dmitri on Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:30 pm

BTDT...
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Re: sway with me

Postby windwalker on Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:06 pm

Always find the reactions quite amusing

Those there at the workshop / read the comments

Those viewing the workshop in a clip

And those that write about what the workshop shows happening,
that some say they also practice

Everything ok, until what some write about is viewed in acton :o


Looks like people had a good time, Adam one the few teachers’s
able to explain and demo openly. :)
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sway with me

Postby everything on Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:19 pm

lol yes, looks like a fun event. would like to go to it and experience getting pushed
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: sway with me

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:18 am

So would I but my actors equity card has expired
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: sway with me

Postby cloudz on Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:48 am

The music choice is very apt, given in these instances he's training these guys to be his dance partners.
Wouldn't it be novel if we saw more of him training people to defend themselves from realistic and violent attacks?
Heck realistic pushing in these seminars would be nice..

But it means much less money and kudos in the broader tc community - a truly sad testament to where we have ended up.

Ultimately these are low level skills displayed, when all you actually deal with is 'dumb' and helpful force and people more than willing to buy into the woo woo game. In the context of combat; it's a game of delusion - when it becomes (made so by people like Adam) a thing in of itself. He's selling snake oil here Not martial 'Skill'....

He would never get away with this nonsense in a proper match up.. not even in competitive push hands, never mind other more serious formats. I know people that would have him for breakfast in pushing, but he would never go near that, ever.

Call me crazy but I thought tai chi chuan was primarily a martial art?

This is bordering on selling a lie, and that's bad. Anyone with any sense of truth, honesty, integrity and love for the authentic MA of TCC would call it out - not promote it as some panacea of (martial) skill. If this kind of thing is all you are invested in, don't deem to call yourself a martial artist.

It's stepping stone material, this is presented out of any genuine context and done so repeatedly and therefore elevated beyond what it's truly worth - in it's PROPER and RIGHTFUL context.

Despite all that - it's also really boring now; the fact that so many tai chi videos present the same thing over and over and hold it as some 'special sauce'. It's become boring, shallow and an embarrassment to anything resembling or purported to be a system of combat/ self defence.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: sway with me

Postby everything on Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:11 am

I think liang de hua in the other videos just says you work on a kind of "power" but of a different quality. he nor others seem to say one only needs power as a "complete" MA, though. :-\
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Re: sway with me

Postby windwalker on Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:50 am

wayne hansen wrote:So would I but my actors equity card has expired


You mentioned you liked my friend "peter's" work....

http://taijihawaii.com/pages/bio_evolution15.html

He along with a couple of my students visited me in Taiwan...
My US students born in Taiwan translated
questions to teacher Lin....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JN2ugv8HYs&t=14s


posted as something I find interesting, reflecting my own work...and practice..
It's very consistent with all the teachers and practitioners of this type of work practice and develop the same type of skill sets
demoed in much the same way among all the teachers working with them :)

Some quite public others not... :)
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: sway with me

Postby everything on Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:54 am

a lot of the problems in these forums is people want to talk about X, but nobody has actually experienced X, then they make conclusions about what they think.

when I've been "pushed" (fajin), it was like the other push-ees described. you can't adjust. I wouldn't be able to grapple or punch or kick or anything. There is no "base" because you're kind of floated. it's the strangest feeling. It makes you laugh in disbelief as Werdum said. But again, nobody said "power" is all of MA. "Fighting is too dangerous" is something like what Mizner said in those clips. If it's about one person (Yang LuChan) who supposedly had both fighting and internal power, that's where maybe this false equivalence comes from. It would be like saying strongmen are just strong, and yeah sure. But then we look at Fedor, who was strong and could fight. But if you haven't encountered it, it's hard to talk about. Even if you have, it's too difficult.
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Re: sway with me

Postby windwalker on Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:58 am

cloudz wrote:The music choice is very apt, given in these instances he's training these guys to be his dance partners.
Wouldn't it be novel if we saw more of him training people to defend themselves from realistic and violent attacks?
Heck realistic pushing in these seminars would be nice..

But it means much less money and kudos in the broader tc community - a truly sad testament to where we have ended up.

Ultimately these are low level skills displayed, when all you actually deal with is 'dumb' and helpful force and people more than willing to buy into the woo woo game. In the context of combat; it's a game of delusion - when it becomes (made so by people like Adam) a thing in of itself. He's selling snake oil here Not martial 'Skill'....

He would never get away with this nonsense in a proper match up.. not even in competitive push hands, never mind other more serious formats. I know people that would have him for breakfast in pushing, but he would never go near that, ever.

Call me crazy but I thought tai chi chuan was primarily a martial art?

This is bordering on selling a lie, and that's bad. Anyone with any sense of truth, honesty, integrity and love for the authentic MA of TCC would call it out - not promote it as some panacea of (martial) skill. If this kind of thing is all you are invested in, don't deem to call yourself a martial artist.

It's stepping stone material, this is presented out of any genuine context and done so repeatedly and therefore elevated beyond what it's truly worth - in it's PROPER and RIGHTFUL context.

Despite all that - it's also really boring now; the fact that so many tai chi videos present the same thing over and over and hold it as some 'special sauce'. It's become boring, shallow and an embarrassment to anything resembling or purported to be a system of combat/ self defence.



I know,,, :-\

regarding push hands ect

Master Wang competed regularly in push hands events in Taiwan, with both national and international participants.

He was push hands champion for several years winning international competitions.

However, he felt discouraged because so much physical force and technique was required to defeat an opponent.


He had read the tai chi classics which talked about softness and "four ounces moving a thousand pounds", but this was not evident in tai chi push hands in present use. Only after meeting Grandmaster Huang did he realize that soft power could be achieved. He studied with Huang, when he visited Taiwan and realized he had to give up his prior emphasis on strength and technique.

https://www.searchcentertaichi.com/aboutMHW.html


An interesting teacher, now back in Taiwan from what I understand...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mNjY7D-ffY
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Re: sway with me

Postby origami_itto on Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:08 am

I mean when the skill gap is that large this is sort of expected, right?
I think some of his methods, if improperly followed, can make the students much more tense and easy to manipulate.
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Re: sway with me

Postby windwalker on Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:24 am

origami_itto wrote:I mean when the skill gap is that large this is sort of expected, right?
I think some of his methods, if improperly followed, can make the students much more tense and easy to manipulate.


Why would one assume the skill gap is so large or that the people have no idea what they'er looking for or expect ?

As is often the case those with the most experience and highest level of skill stick around understanding the type of skill as teacher Wang did when
he met his teacher...


People finding the skill, usually have a good time as those in the clip did finding something completely unexpected confronting their skepticism they might've had..
It's fun, and funny for them...people have a good time, understanding its about the skill

Adams, skill has improved ...He's doing things now, in accordance with his development at this time...Changing the way he demos
Like his clear explanations and approach...
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: sway with me

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:21 am

Regarding the application of TCC form postures and movement patterns to realtime self-defense fighting, the trained ability to maintain your own balance and stability with firm rooting in any stance or posture, while simultaneously disrupting and disturbing same in your opponent, has always been one of the primary hallmarks of martial expertise in every major TCC style. This is relevant to any physical combat scenario for a very fundamental reason.

Simply stated, every fighting style consists of specialized training in boxing, kicking, grappling and throwing, or preferred combinations of these three specialties. In each instance, the techniques employed require the support of unbroken balance and stability of stance and footwork. As such, when those conditions are compromised, an opponent's defensive and offensive techniques are both easily neutralized, allowing fast, effective countermeasures to be applied before the opponent is able to regain their balance and stability.

This is of greater value to me as a practical fighting skill than using trained control of an opponent's compromised structure and instability primarily to push them away, bounce them out, or merely redirect them downward to the ground without an injury which would prevent any further threat of attack. -shrug-
Last edited by Doc Stier on Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sway with me

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:57 am

windwalker wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:So would I but my actors equity card has expired


You mentioned you liked my friend "peter's" work....

http://taijihawaii.com/pages/bio_evolution15.html

He along with a couple of my students visited me in Taiwan...
My US students born in Taiwan translated
questions to teacher Lin....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JN2ugv8HYs&t=14s


posted as something I find interesting, reflecting my own work...and practice..
It's very consistent with all the teachers and practitioners of this type of work practice and develop the same type of skill sets
demoed in much the same way among all the teachers working with them :)

Some quite public others not... :)


I said I liked his forms
What is shown here is just silly
As with Adam show him doing it with someone who does not want to be tricked or be part of a line of propergation
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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