the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... d-shooting

"took down" a man who then shot him in the head.

If someone is close enough and skilled enough to take an armed adversary down, they should conceivably also be skilled enough to disarm the bastard and knock his ass out on their way to the floor, thus preventing any continuing threat of further attack.

Seems to have happened a little differently. According to other accounts already published days ago, Leandro Lo got into an altercation with a drunk guy at a party. The guy tried to hit him with a bottle (no sign of a gun at this point) and Lo took him down - which is what one would expect on the basis of his skill. Then after subduing him, Lo presumably let him get up again. At this point the other guy took a few steps back, pulled a gun and shot him in the head.



So apart from the tragic loss of a good man, what's the takeaway? In an environment where it's not unlikely that someone may be carrying a gun (e.g. Brazil, USA), do you (together with others at the scene) preferably frisk the aggressor for weapons before letting him up again? Or keep him down until the police arrive? Or immediately leave the scene? Did Lo's huge experience with sporting competitions possibly (unconsciously) affect his judgement, in the sense of 'I took him down, dominated him, and so now it's over' ?

NEVER underestimate what evil men will do especially when you turn your back, or even hesitate for any instant.
No one is immune regardless of skill! Amen

my takeway was a lot more simple/general:

"fighting is stupid"

Right. No martial art makes anyone invulnerable to bullets. It is always better not to fight, if it can be avoided.

For sure. But in this case, there is no information so far as to whether Leandro Lo previously escalated the foregoing 'altercation' or not, whether the drunk bad guy was already harassing people, whether he just flipped out and started the physical attack or whether a clear path to deescalation was open before this. And we'll probably never know. So on this basis, I don't think it's fair to assume that Lo was principally 'stupid for engaging in fighting'. If you are actually attacked (with a weapon!), then the moment for deescalation has passed and you have to 'fight' in some way.

Even if they frisked the guy he could have shot him at a later date
You would have had to be there to know the circumstances

Some fights can be avoided; some can't. Sometimes it's better to lose or run away.

This was random. One guy had a gun, got beaten, and decided to have his revenge. It could happen to anyone.

if they're enjoying a concert, there's just absolutely zero reason to "take him down" using your "world championship" skills. if he's trying to kill you or your loved ones, and you're jiu-jitsu champ why not go ahead and choke him out? he paid the price (not that he would know) for this decision. if someone is dropping bombs on your home, you might need to find a way to fight. enjoying sports or concert? makes zero sense in 99.999999% of cases esp in gun-crazed countries.

Maybe he slept with his sister beforehand. Dunno. You could also just stay away from drunken crowds in general and invite friends into your backyard/home, but most people will feel this is too restrictive advice

No, it isn`t.
similar story about judo champ in Japan couple years ago,
he was shot in the head by shithead who announced: now I`m the master...
speakin` about discussed case:
Brazil - full of "machomans" and guns, well
should he kill the macho on the scene?
this leads to the judgment, for sure, and not prevents from possibility of the revenge in a future.
Suppose, that best thing to do, in such circumstances could be:
take the bottle shot with kind of "protective blockin`" and play death.

Don't have to play dead, lying on the ground... Then he may kick you, piss on you, spit on you, or pull out gun.

Champ humiliating a random armed drunko... With big macho ego, maybe in both sides? I also wouldn't have liked to be taken to ground, then maybe locked to submission until I tapped or shouted uncle... In front of huge crowd where I want to be high in social status.

Maybe champ could have just defended and toyed with him, until attacker loses interest? While smiling at him? Offer to buy him another drink? Why were they fighting in the first place...? Out in public, I haven't really met people who engaged in aggression only for aggression's sake, always something behind it... Very rare to find someone at a party who is only out to harm people for the sake of harming people...

Or be skilled enough to dodge / redirect any attack, not even blocking maybe? Pretend to be scared, shout 'you win' and then run away?

to many version to pick one in milisec, when bottle is fyin`,
you may find yourself frozen,
about be pissed, when on the floor - `cause it was public place it shoudn`t happen,
or my wishful thinking?|
Dodgin` the guy - not bad option, but doesn`t prevent pulling the gun, then this tactic is problematic,
anyway, fuck the title, better be live without "the face", than became cold dead champ,
or it just me?

They guy was a police man who brought a gun to a night club. He's probably on the organised crime pay roll. It's Brazil.

Just don't fuck with the wrong people is the message.