the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nlZXZH0nUA

Speaker: Ruth Rogaski, History, Vanderbilt University
Elvera Kwang Siam Lim Memorial Lecture
What is the relationship between the air we breathe (in Chinese, kongqi) and the qi of Chinese medicine?

This talk explores the history of this intersection in order to better understand the cultural underpinnings of the connection between health and environment in China today.

The talk concludes with some musings about the relationship between qi and air today, in an era when enthusiasm for the health benefits of qigong coexists with the presence of an increasingly unbreathable atmosphere.

Interesting mentions what happened when the Jesuits came to China,,,,

And how they changed some of the ideas regarding "qi"

How the translations of "qi" changed over time with the introduction of western science to "air"
might help to account for the differences of how its thought of now vs some of the traditional underpinnings used
in Chinese culture describing it....not based on things...

The Chinese long ago knew and understood what western science knew using only the human senses to do so.
with out the need for an apparatus.

Understanding that western science could not know though an apparatus, what "qi" is.

you don't need this bullshit to understand it at all
just some good exercises and a bit of time.

and a lack of bias swimming around your brain.

cloudz wrote:you don't need this bullshit to understand it at all
just some good exercises and a bit of time.

and a lack of bias swimming around your brain.

Good example of what the clip is about.....

"Qi" redefined by the Jesuits at first, later with the colonialist as they sought to re-make the Chinese culture more like their own
based on religious belief, or western science based outlook of things using apparatuses to measure confirming them.

In modern times attempts to understand this concept acknowledged by western science but said not to be real because it can't be measured.
presents modern people seeking this understanding with problems due to the western influence "ongoing" with what was and is a cultural viewpoint of looking at the world.

The clip offers an explanation of why up until this time "Qi" has yet to be validated in the west...using apparatuses, rather then the human body / mind itself that originating culture used as a basis for their understanding..


would request any comments not related to the topic not posted or make another thread....

post title changed / more inclusive of the talk presented in the clip.

really interesting exploration. at the end they talk about "decolonized definition of qi" and uncoupling a 1:1 idea of TCM:modern science knowledge. that seems a bit obvious, but then again, people posting on a board about taoist arts who would presumably know more, at least from a first hand pov, than these scholars know don't seem to have a handle on these things. agree with cloudz that we mainly need some time and some exercises. but I don't know if it's b.s. to analyze how the understanding and translations and so on changed. scholars are a weird crowd. it's interesting to me they talk about qi and cosmology, but also that chemistry was all tied to talk of God in the early days. seems a bit analogous.

i always come back to a few things that "physics" says:
- everything is just "strings" vibrating
- energy isn't created or destroyed ... it's just transformed.

in that sense, some rough 1:1 translation seems useful. "qi" and all things are made of just "strings vibrating". "qi" as "energy" is also not created/destroyed ... it's also just transformed. those two ideas seem a bit more useful, especially if we take a super abstract look at IMA.

A+ clip Windwalker - thanks!

In order for things to be fully revealed to us, it is oftentimes necessary to abandon our assumptions regarding them.

Can I abandon being abandoned?

Yes, of course you can.

I used to strive for total apathy regarding things like that, but now I simply don't care anymore.

Yeah, those are actually two different things - apathy and not caring. Thanks for pointing that out . Didn't know for a long time.

What is it you don't care about anymore?