How Racist Are You?

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How Racist Are You?

Postby origami_itto on Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:28 pm

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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby Dmitri on Wed Nov 09, 2022 5:24 am

***"Blacks" can be substituted with people of any nationality/ethnicity other than European white since it's people of European descent who have held institutional power in America since its inception.

WTF is "European white"?! Has the author been to Europe? And what about bi-/multi-racial people? When will this "race" BS end? :(
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby origami_itto on Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:25 am

Dmitri wrote:
***"Blacks" can be substituted with people of any nationality/ethnicity other than European white since it's people of European descent who have held institutional power in America since its inception.

WTF is "European white"?! Has the author been to Europe? And what about bi-/multi-racial people? When will this "race" BS end? :(

I think that puts you right around the Justification-Denial part of the spectrum.
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby origami_itto on Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:30 am

This is another interesting picture I found yesterday.
Image

Shereen Daniels wrote:https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/ur ... 516897792/
"Blacks often report higher pain internally than other cultures.

They believe pain and suffering is inevitable."

This was taken from a textbook published in 2015 - Nursing: A Concept-Based Approach to Learning (2nd edition, Pearson).

Yes, they may have changed a few paragraphs in reprinted editions - l think the publisher apologised on Twitter.

But note the citations. These are individuals who have shaped approaches, beliefs and 'expertise' around how different ethnic/religious groups experience pain. What/where are the consequences for them?

The ramifications of this are chilling.

MBRRACE-UK Saving Lives, Improving Mothers’ Care (2021) shows the disparity in maternal mortality rates between women from Black and Asian aggregated ethnic groups and White women remains more than four times higher for Black women, two times higher for mixed ethnicity women and almost twice as high for Asian women.

World Medical Association (WMA) in a statement adopted at the annual meeting of its General Assembly held in Berlin last month, said:

"Racism is rooted in the false idea that human beings can be ranked as superior or inferior based on inherited physical traits.

This harmful social construct has no basis in biological reality; however, racist policies and ideas have been used throughout history and are still used to perpetuate, justify, and sustain unequal treatment.”

The WMA urges its member national medical associations—representing about 9 million physicians from 115 countries—to commit to “dismantling racist policies and practices in health care and to advocate for anti-racist policies and practices that support equity in health care and social justice.”

Anti-racism (not diversity and inclusion) in the NHS/healthcare industry will literally save lives.

#AntiRacism
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby Steve James on Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:06 am

WTF is "European white"?! Has the author been to Europe? And what about bi-/multi-racial people? When will this "race" BS end? :(


The writer is looking at it from the USAmerican pov. The "Races" were European or African or Asian or "Indian," and were soon translated into colors. So, ya got your whites, blacks, yellows, reds, and soon browns. Well, 99/100 humans is some shade of brown to beige (unless they're ill). Moreover, every "race" has many shades. Take "Black" people, for ex, but it's true for Europeans and Asians.

Anyway, jmo, but when someone asks about "mixed race" people, I just say that every child is the same "race" as its parents. That question only comes up in North America, excluding Mexico (where the national identity/race is mestizo. In our last census, bi-racial (or multi-racial) was a category. Of course, color (not race) is often considered a status symbol, but doesn't necessarily indicate status.

USAmericans ain't Europeans, not even if they're 2nd generation off the boat/plane. If they've been here for 10 generations, calling them European should be an insult. They're "Americans" and part of the American race. Spain is in Europe (:)), and Spaniards were here 100 years before the English, had children with "Indians" who'd been here 20k years before that. But, in the US, we created the category "Hispanic" which isn't a race, but it's still put on applications.

Afa the list above, though, I think everyone could say yes to one of those options. My only criticism would be that it could be generalized to be anyone talking about an "other." Iow., I can imagine a "Black" guy talking about "White" people. It doesn't matter whether race exists. The question is what I personally want or would do, and how I think. The categories above assume a cultural perspective -held by USAmericans who consider themselves "White." It's a bit unfair because the questions are "complex." It's why few want to answer.
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby Steve James on Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:31 am

Wow, imo, those assumptions about peoples response to pain is an excellent example of racism, precisely because it's not using "race" at all. I.e., on the census, there's no racial category "Jew" or Arab, and if you're from Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, you are counted as "White." So, there may indeed be cultural reasons why a Muslim calls on Allah and a Jew might complain to the doctor and a Navajo might want a spirit healer and a Chinese patient might ask for acupuncture and herbs. OK, that's not race.

Otoh, I can see why the writer apologized. But, my personal hospital experience is that the perception that "Blacks feel pain more intensely" leads to their pain complaints being dismissed. Hospitals in lower income areas are more reluctant to give some patients pain medications. So, those who don't complain of pain are more likely to be attended to.
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby origami_itto on Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:26 am

Steve James wrote:Wow, imo, those assumptions about peoples response to pain is an excellent example of racism, precisely because it's not using "race" at all. I.e., on the census, there's no racial category "Jew" or Arab, and if you're from Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, you are counted as "White." So, there may indeed be cultural reasons why a Muslim calls on Allah and a Jew might complain to the doctor and a Navajo might want a spirit healer and a Chinese patient might ask for acupuncture and herbs. OK, that's not race.

Otoh, I can see why the writer apologized. But, my personal hospital experience is that the perception that "Blacks feel pain more intensely" leads to their pain complaints being dismissed. Hospitals in lower income areas are more reluctant to give some patients pain medications. So, those who don't complain of pain are more likely to be attended to.


It goes even deeper than that, depends how much reading you want to commit to...
https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-h ... ress-them/

Black and American Indian and Alaska Native (AIAN) women have higher rates of pregnancy-related death compared to White women. Pregnancy-related mortality rates among Black and AIAN women are over three and two times higher, respectively, compared to the rate for White women (41.4 and 26.2 vs. 13.7 per 100,000). Black, AIAN, and Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (NHOPI) women also have higher shares preterm births, low birthweight births, or births for which they received late or no prenatal care compared to White women. Infants born to Black, AIAN, and NHOPI people have markedly higher mortality rates than those born to White women. Maternal death rates increased during the COVID-19 pandemic and racial disparities widened for Black women.


These disparities increase by maternal age. For example, the pregnancy-related mortality rate for Black women between ages 30 to 34 widens to over four times higher than the rate for White women (48.6 vs. 11.3 per 100,000), while the rate for AIAN women in the same age group is nearly four times as high as the rate for White women (41.2 per 100,000). Moreover, they persist across education levels. Notably, the pregnancy-related mortality rate for Black women who completed college education or higher is 5.2 times higher than the rate for White women with the same educational attainment and 1.6 times higher than the rate for White women with less than a high school diploma. There are small differences in the rate pregnancy-related death between Asian and Pacific Islander and White women (14.1 vs. 13.7 per 100,000), and the rate for Hispanic women is lower compared to that of White women (11.2 vs. 13.7 per 100,000). These findings may mask underlying differences in subgroups of these populations. Other research also shows that Black women are at significantly higher risk for severe maternal morbidity, such as preeclampsia, which is significantly more common than maternal death. Further, Black women have higher rates of admission to the intensive care unit during delivery compared to White women, which is considered a marker for severe maternal morbidity.
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby Steve James on Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:06 am

Racism in medicine isn't new. The question is what the people affected can do about it. My main argument is that "race" is not the cause, and can't be the solution.

Anyway, you could be interested in the book Medical Apartheid
https://www.amazon.com/Medical-Aparthei ... 076791547X
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby Dmitri on Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:18 am

origami_itto wrote:
Dmitri wrote:
***"Blacks" can be substituted with people of any nationality/ethnicity other than European white since it's people of European descent who have held institutional power in America since its inception.

WTF is "European white"?! Has the author been to Europe? And what about bi-/multi-racial people? When will this "race" BS end? :(

I think that puts you right around the Justification-Denial part of the spectrum.

Oh goody, now I know I'm on some shelf somewhere :D ::)
Last edited by Dmitri on Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby origami_itto on Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:28 am

Steve James wrote:Racism in medicine isn't new. The question is what the people affected can do about it. My main argument is that "race" is not the cause, and can't be the solution.

Anyway, you could be interested in the book Medical Apartheid
https://www.amazon.com/Medical-Aparthei ... 076791547X


Yes, race itself isn't the cause of the outcomes, racism is, both directly by members of the medical profession and in the wider systematic racism that hinders access to quality care and preventative measures like access to healthy food choices and education.

Strengthened by people that think that since they aren't personally affected it can't be real. Kind of like doctors that don't listen to people's complaints.

We seem to think we know more about people's lived experiences than they do themselves.
Last edited by origami_itto on Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:32 am

Good grief! The stereotypes perpetuated above on this thread are blatantly racist in themselves and essentially inaccurate at their core. ::)
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby origami_itto on Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:40 am

Doc Stier wrote:Good grief! The stereotypes perpetuated above on this thread are blatantly racist in themselves and essentially inaccurate at their core. ::)

Which ones?
The statistics are accurate reflections of health outcomes for pregnant women and the second article I linked goes into depth about the contributing factors.
There is a real danger in treating groups homogeneously, but sometimes analyzing sub-populations can reveal real disparities in treatment. Ask a black friend, a woman if possible, to tell you about their experiences with the medical system.
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby greytowhite on Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:18 am

I'm between Allyship and Abolitionist on the scale there. I go just short of risking my safety. My family has ties to white supremacist groups and it's something I've been actively opposed to as an adult. I train BIPOC people at a discounted rate. My best teachers in any of these arts would be considered Black and it's been a privilege working with them.
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby Bob on Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:02 am

Validity and reliability measures of the scale? Call in the industrial/organizational psychologists
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Re: How Racist Are You?

Postby origami_itto on Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:17 pm

Bob wrote:Validity and reliability measures of the scale? Call in the industrial/organizational psychologists


I guess that puts you at indifference?

There are many models for breaking down and understanding racism.

greytowhite wrote:I'm between Allyship and Abolitionist on the scale there. I go just short of risking my safety. My family has ties to white supremacist groups and it's something I've been actively opposed to as an adult. I train BIPOC people at a discounted rate. My best teachers in any of these arts would be considered Black and it's been a privilege working with them.

Yes that's what I told my wife. I will put my safety on the line on a case by case basis. No blanket agreement.
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