mobility "standards"

[everything]

this is really a promo for an online personal strength/mobility training program. I'm doing a rehab version now, but the rehab can progress to "standards" for athletic training. this guy is primarily interested in basketball and jumping, but his info is good for any sports or arts activity needing good mobility. he helps some NBA athletes and learns from various "outliers" in mobility and career-longevity from various sports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nhuBzBjWzQ



in an MA forum, many people might have already hit this level of ROM (I'm a million miles away). are there similar "standards" in your art, or personal art or practice? They all make me think of some movie with Shaolin monks doing feats of strength and mobility, or Jean-Claude Van Damme doing the splits across two big rigs in TV ads or something. I don't think I'll get to any of these "standards", but I like the idea of making specific measurable progress toward them. I haven't taken any MA or anything else where the instructors expected/guided us to get to certain mobility levels. probably is in lots of TMA, but I'm not particularly aware that the info out there is as systematic (X% of bodyweight in Y position, joint by joint). I've seen various martial arts and yoga people with this level or better of flexibility, but I need "for dummies" step by step guidance.

[Formosa Neijia]

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[Formosa Neijia]

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[everything]

yeah excellent! maybe if I sign up, you'll be my coach. I'm only doing Zero now to rehab a knee injury, but love the idea of doing Dense and Standards. Never have I thought I could have decent flexibility. I don't think I'll necessarily hit those ROM levels, but this is probably the first time in my life I realize I can realistically get to a reasonable level (probably like an average human, which is 2x better compared to my levels).

fwiw, I'm 100% into this idea and 100% into the "relax" (but NOT the weakening). haven't noticed any weird contradiction (admittedly only doing qigong and not IMA at the moment; "hugging qi" and "fangsong" still seems fine to me; if anything having strong/mobile legs seems a must for anyone into IMA; just doing "snake creeps down" is impressive mobility for example). what's much more weird to me from an "IMA folks got it wrong" pov is all the disjointed blah blah about "tendons" and "eccentric". all of that is clear here (everything you just said above). lots of good stuff. just need to broaden the lens to look across all sports and what the S&C folks look at (even if some of the ideas are "in" TMA, I like some of these step-by-step explanations. x leads to y.). I read the Tom Kurz book many times and think I followed the theory, but couldn't really program it and figure out some personal routine to get improvements.

speaking of a programming pov, I just bought his book to do Zero. amazing how much it helps after only 2 weeks or so, so far. it almost doesn't make sense. just a few seemingly innocuous exercises. I stumbled upon two specialized treadmills at my local gym designed for backwards walking. 15 min was honestly a bit difficult. probably placebo effect, but my legs felt great. tibs and vmo and whatever else "brakes" me felt really worked in a great way. I don't know yet if I'll be "fully healed", but I think I will. then, I might sign up for the program to learn Dense and Standards. pretty excited to heal, then improve my mobility. then resume sports and MA at some point.

[Formosa Neijia]

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[GrahamB]

Good to see all the RSF threads mergining into one.

This is what the fitness industry sounds like to people that aren't in the fitness industry

https://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php ... dc6713120f

[wayne hansen]

Thanks for that
Just reinforced everything I have been training for nearly 50 years
Finally someone has realised ice retards healing
In 77 I trained a team that won the business houses rugby league comp
I never used ice just dit da Yao and Zheng Gu Zhui
Never had a player out the next week

[Appledog]

I'm finishing his ATG Coaching level 1now and this is the best thing in sports/fitness since Crossfit and kettlebells. It's really that good. It's directly applicable to CMA but when you get told that fitness has 0% to do with CMA because "then everyone that does Crossfit would be a master" then it's not really worth promoting. If smart people want to learn how to do things like low Chen style without ruining your knees or hit bagua's low xibu without any impediment WHILE maintaining muscle mass (not just endless nonsensical platitudes about "relax") than ATG will give you what you need. I use it to train everyone from old people to athletes these days.

BTW you'll have greater success if you train zero or standards at the same time that you're doing the mobility daily.

I'm forced to agree, but I have a vastly different experience with regard to CMA. I've been examining and collecting progression exercises for years. Convict conditioning, that sort of thing. Stretch progressions, squat progressions and so forth.

What I have found is that most of them are taught already in traditional kungfu -- moreso in what I have been attracted to (probably because I see the value in this) -- For example, weighted splits where you bend forward and backwards -- this is pretty much the "part horse's mane" posture from Wang Ziping's qigong.

Weighted side bends, tibia flexing, pidgeon pose for example are all present in basic training (or should be). I think this is how it should be taught. There should be a set of perhaps 10 or 20 such postures and they should be taught as a fundamental set for kungfu practice. Now, I don't know what ATG is but I bet if you took the best 80% of it, it would make a great qigong routine for CMA.

I think that is a huge thing missing from a lot of traditional schools these days. It may have started with the standardized schools that popped up in the 20s and 30s (there were quite a number of them). I get the feeling they shifted to teaching more forms and less jibengong sets.

[origami_itto]

Yeah I don't know about that shit talking CMA, I'm 46 and stronger than I was at 23 and just getting stronger.

[everything]

you could say it's a rehab program originally for knees. morphed into athletic and mobility training as the author realized the same exercises/approach that healed his knee gave him surprising and large improvements in his jumping. one of his main observations was everyone said "never let your knees go past your toes" but it turned out to be untrue (such as in very normal activities like walking backwards, walking downstairs, "Asian squat" etc. etc.) so in a way, it's all a reaction to that bad advice that was "standard" for a while. having that mobility/strength at end range and increasing the range turns out to further protect the joint, not damage it, as long as you progress slowly. take that idea and apply to every joint. not "new" to TMA, but the packaging and programming is super helpful. apply specific rehab exercises to each joint, from the ground up, then add specific level of strength in those increased ROMs. you could probably maintain/increase ROM doing something like baduanjin, taiji form, circle walking including lots of low changes, etc. or it's possible only doing those is kind of the "same", but it seems too general, esp if you get an injury. "strengthen the chain" is fine when you are already strong with no weak links. if you have a weak link, you have to fix that first and make that link stronger than before. then, if you need to be a high jumper, martial artist, or whatnot, you'd go farther than that. that's where he talks about "standards" and people who are beyond those levels.

TL;DR: rehab++ is better/safer than increasing strength at the middle of assorted ROMs.

Xerex?

hmm not sure. I have to check the brand. something I was wondering about is if I pulled a sled backward, how different would it feel. I feel a lot of the friction on the treadmill in my ankles, versus I feel like pulling something would distribute that load more.

[windwalker]

I'm finishing his ATG Coaching level 1now and this is the best thing in sports/fitness since Crossfit and kettlebells. It's really that good. It's directly applicable to CMA but when you get told that fitness has 0% to do with CMA because "then everyone that does Crossfit would be a master" then it's not really worth promoting. If smart people want to learn how to do things like low Chen style without ruining your knees or hit bagua's low xibu without any impediment WHILE maintaining muscle mass (not just endless nonsensical platitudes about "relax") than ATG will give you what you need. I use it to train everyone from old people to athletes these days.

BTW you'll have greater success if you train zero or standards at the same time that you're doing the mobility daily.

I'm forced to agree, but I have a vastly different experience with regard to CMA. I've been examining and collecting progression exercises for years. Convict conditioning, that sort of thing. Stretch progressions, squat progressions and so forth.

What I have found is that most of them are taught already in traditional kungfu -- moreso in what I have been attracted to (probably because I see the value in this) -- For example, weighted splits where you bend forward and backwards -- this is pretty much the "part horse's mane" posture from Wang Ziping's qigong.

Weighted side bends, tibia flexing, pidgeon pose for example are all present in basic training (or should be). I think this is how it should be taught. There should be a set of perhaps 10 or 20 such postures and they should be taught as a fundamental set for kungfu practice. Now, I don't know what ATG is but I bet if you took the best 80% of it, it would make a great qigong routine for CMA.

I think that is a huge thing missing from a lot of traditional schools these days. It may have started with the standardized schools that popped up in the 20s and 30s (there were quite a number of them). I get the feeling they shifted to teaching more forms and less jibengong sets.

Interesting


If one wants to do a "cool taiji move " as she mentions .....she seems to be able to do it well
if thats what one is looking for..

She doesn't teaching fighting ...what she teaches related to what she does.

Wonder if the presented method of fitness exercises would be enable one to do the same.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHpyMNkf0AQ

[everything]

to show off with a cool pistol squat, this particular rehab program is probably enough to get there or get close.

- work to a certain level of ankle dorsiflexion, tibia, calf, hip mobility.
- lengthen quads, hip flexors, hamstrings.
- get the hip flexor strength to hold your own leg straight out.

if you can do "Asian squat", it's halfway there. the hard part to me is holding a leg out, lol. this is trained via a progression to the "L-sit".

"taijiquan" is a different topic.

[Formosa Neijia]

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[Formosa Neijia]

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[wayne hansen]

I have mentioned one of my Wu Style teachers here before
He Tow Tan at 76 could do 20 pistol squats on one leg smiling all the time touching his but to the ground then do the same on the other leg
He was also the only person I have seen touch his fingers to the ground in needle while keeping his back plumb vertical

The knees beyond the toes thing is a combat requirement not a exercise guideline

Weighted stretching was done not with weights but with another person standing on your knees or sitting on your back