US Retaliates Against China's Micron Attack

[windwalker]

Now China wants to set rules for the US: "If you dare to slap me, I will definitely punch you back."

about time


Used to work for Applied Materials...among other Capital equipment semiconductor, manufactures..

The US wants to control the industry while at the same time, trying to preserve its market, and market for those who make capital equipment used in the manufacturing process..

Forcing and helping China, and other countries to make their own Chips, develop internally their own base....


TSMC Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing company,,,made a bad move opening a fab in Arizona...

Transferring their technology, and know how to the US.....What happens when or if the US can duplicate it,,,
which so far with other fabs opened by TSCMC in the US has not happened..

The US lacking, home gown "talent" needed to run and operate the fabs...Tries to import Taiwans "talent" who after arriving complain of what seems to be a double standard between the Taiwanese engineers and US engineers pay, time off, shifts ect.

Go figure like it wasn't expected....

wait until the US somehow or way, is able to reproduce TSMC manufacturing processes...in the US

....by by Taiwan

[everything]

from an USA pov, it doesn't seem to have much industrial policy compared to E Asia or W Europe, so offshoring fabs to higher quality and lower cost locations probably made sense to investors at the time. then Wall St and Silicon Valley wanted to invest in social media, p2p networks, blah blah blah software and data things seemingly w/o anyone thinking about the long term picture. attempts at "reshoring" probably makes "strategic" sense. not sure the gov and private sector really work together.

from a TSMC pov, it seems like fabs all over the world are a good hedge for all kinds of risks w/tradeoff (manageable??) of quality/cost issues

[yeniseri]

2 man rat cyah live in the same hole! Ancient saying

China has as much right to assert its dominance in the marketplace but when legitimacy is challenged, the status quo will be "damaged".
This is what happens when immediacy matters but who will strike first to shore up weakess or strength under the current system with all these "actors' showing their arse
in the words according to Gen Alexander Haig "I"m in charge"..Who dares wins but at what cost?

Just a reminder..Nixon and his GOP stalwarts of the day picked mainland China to undermine the blue collar industry, and most industries moved to Asia in the refuasal
to pay the American worker his true worth. Nixon's plans worked because his expectation was the the quiet Asians do what they are told (as some have said ) and they
will keep the status quo and not rock the boat. His underestimation of the capability of China failed to take into consideration 5000 years of Chinese history.

Even Malcomn Gladwell analyses of the 10,000 repetitions of doing Task X (per China) and the growth of the terraced fields, agricultural necessities, hard work and determination
propelled China to be a player on the wrold statge ,as it should, like any other nation !

[everything]

I guess "The Wealth of Nations" assumes all nations can and should pursue wealth. If your resource is "cheap, hard working labor" in massive abundance, it makes sense to use it. Supply/demand and comparative advantage "laws" will always apply. Politics and "strategy" (investments in technologies, resources, capabilities important to your nation) may be at odds with laws of microeconomics (decisions made by "firms"). How do they resolve that? Good question.

[Bao]

Regardless what is produced in the US, everyone will still buy from TW/China

Manufacturing costs goes up in the US. No one will accept paying 30% extra for a US made chip.

"TSMC may charge 30 percent more for chips made at its US-based Arizona fabs"

https://www.techspot.com/news/98541-tsm ... -made.html

[everything]

it's definitely had to see how the market will "bear" that. not really sure if that's a negotiation stance for more incentives or what.

[windwalker]

Reading the post I am struck by the main point, maybe not so obvious

The US has made significant efforts to address and contain the rapid technological advancements made by China.

Saying and espousing "free markets" markets only free as long as they serve interested parties in the US and US itself.

Has exposed directly the hypocrisy of the US attempting to maintain its hegemon controlling the rest of the world.
Enables the rest of the world to understand and be free from it.



it's not working

[everything]

technology seems impossible to stop. trade war posturing and so on, not so much

[windwalker]

technology seems impossible to stop. trade war posturing and so on, not so much

Risks of the West’s "China Strategy"?

[everything]

ELI5

1. Offshore manufacturing
2. Sell Wall St on being IP based
3. Have your country issue a mountain of debt mainly bought by China
4. China devalues currency to boost the exports
5. Keep prices low so consumers buy shit
6. Everyone is stuck in the loop
7. Only one part gets rich
8. The 1% don’t give any fucks
9. Someone stick a finger in the dam.
10. ________

[yeniseri]

ELI5

1. Offshore manufacturing
2. Sell Wall St on being IP based
3. Have your country issue a mountain of debt mainly bought by China
4. China devalues currency to boost the exports
5. Keep prices low so consumers buy shit
6. Everyone is stuck in the loop
7. Only one part gets rich
8. The 1% don’t give any fucks
9. Someone stick a finger in the dam.
10. ________

China was taught this by US interests when blue collar jobs moved from USA to Asia.
Why is the master jealous when the student has not only exceed but surpassed their expectations. Just add USA to the above points.........and see tha pattern

Personally, it will be worse for China because too many see USA as the Godhead outwardly while the inner spirit sees the truth.

[everything]

there is no master, only fat cats who made short term microeconomics-based decisions that created the above pattern. what happens next and what should parties do about it? Ray Dalio (started the Bridgewater hedge fund) seems to know some of the possible answers.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/457189 ... plications

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2r_eOjsPw

[windwalker]

As soon as the plane landed, the market responded with a big gift, as Tesla's stock rose 4% overnight, resulting in a market value surge of over $25 billion by the close of May 30th US Eastern time.

China does not need US technology, this it can develop on it's own

The US needs the China market, one of the largest markets in the world...

China will continue to develop its own in-house technology, the US can not control or stop this from happening..

The CEO's are warning the US gov. about the fallout from trying to control or limit, China's technological advance.

Similar to the energy markets, the ongoing decoupling of the worlds reserve currency...

[windwalker]

there is no master, only fat cats who made short term microeconomics-based decisions that created the above pattern. what happens next and what should parties do about it? Ray Dalio (started the Bridgewater hedge fund) seems to know some of the possible answers.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/457189 ... plications

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2r_eOjsPw

along with energy markets,

change is gonna come

Saudi Arabia oil production cut

[windwalker]

Chip Allies and Giants Turn Against the U.S., Leaving China as the Ultimate Winner