"But her emails" Trump is sunk.

[origami_itto]

They released the indictment and his lawyers quit. 37 Counts.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/09/trump-i ... ealed.html

Trump showed classified documents to other people in the summer of 2021, after leaving office in January of that year.

One of those documents was a “plan of attack” that he told a publisher and writer at his Bedminster, New Jersey, golf club was prepared by the Pentagon.

“As president I could have declassified it,” Trump told them, according to an audio recording of that July 2021 comment which is quoted in the indictment.

“Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret,” he added.

A month or so later at Bedminster, Trump showed a representative of a political action committed “a classified map related to a military operation” and told the other man “he should not be showing it to the representative and that the representative should not get to close,” the indictment alleges.

Also charged in the indictment was Trump’s valet, Walter Nauta, who faces several of the same charges as his boss, with whom he allegedly conspired to keep classified records and hide them from a federal grand jury.

The indictment said that Trump was personally involved in packing up boxes of documents as he prepared to vacate the White House to his home at his Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Florida.

The FBI’s raid of Mar-a-Lago last August discovered hundreds of classified documents, which Trump had failed to turn over to U.S. officials after they spent a year or so trying to recover them.

The indictment says Trump as president had placed in cardboard boxes documents containing information about defense and weapons capabilities of the United States and foreign countries, U.S. nuclear programs, and “potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack.”

When he left the White House, Trump ordered that scores of such boxes to be shipped to Mar-a-Lago, where they were stored in a ballroom, a bathroom, a shower, and office space, along with his bedroom and a storage room, the indictment says.

The indictment says, “On December 7, 2021, Nauta found several of Trump’s boxes fallen and their contents spilled onto the floor of the Storage Room [at Mar-a-Lago] including a document marked “SECRET//REL TO USA, FVEY,” which denoted that the information in the document was releasable only to the Five Eyes intelligence alliance consisting of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States.”

During the time had had the documents at Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s club hosted more than 150 social events, which drew tens of thousands of guests, the indictment noted.

[Kong Bao Long]

I think Trump might have finally have done it... (administered a self inflicted lethal political wound ... that at the very least removes himself from the American field politics)

[Dmitri]

He's the best!
Such a stand-up guy...

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... ad-vpx.cnn

[vadaga]

anyone want to put odds on the following for Trump:
plea bargain
goes to trial, wins
goes to trial, loses, goes to jail
goes to trial, loses, absconds to Russia
goes to trial, loses, goes to jail, elected president
goes to trial, loses, goes to jail, loses presidential race

[origami_itto]

I'll put $10 each on the top and bottom options

[windwalker]

Article II, Section 1 establishes that the president has the power to run the executive branch of the government.

Makes a good argument for the office of the president vested in one person, given power under the constitution

Presidents have long claimed the authority to classify materials by dint of the president being the nation’s chief executive and commander in chief — The only official vested under Article II of the Constitution with “the executive power.”

Any other official involved in classifying materials does so, it is argued, because the president has delegated that authority to that official. And because the president has the underlying power to classify, he has by implication the unilateral authority to declassify.

Biden undercuts WH executive privilege shield

Understand by doing this former presidents are now subject to having their actions litigated by the opposing party after leaving office..
by other then normal constitutional measures while in office...

Banana republic. We are here.

If its still possible for someone from the other party to win the presidency,,,
Wonder what happens to biden family and gang

[everything]

I was asking ChatGPT stuff along the lines of:

- what if you only have "one party" but that one party votes?
- ok, what if you have essentially "two parties"

basically, neither is really a "democracy". but "multiparty" representing more views? "is". but how do you get from A to B?

it seems nobody knows.

[Steve James]

The charges have literally nothing to do with classification. It doesn't matter whether they were classified or not. The issue is ownership, and the Presidential Records Act separates what he owns as President (his notes, personal possessions) from US government documents. The latter belong to the people.

Even if it's argued that he could declassify our nuclear strike capabilities and show them off to his friends, you'd have to be a fool to believe it's a good idea or safe for the country. Some have said, "Oh well, but nothing bad happened." But, that's the problem. We don't know -our government doesn't know -and we can't know without compromising the intelligence.

Worse, if he'd just have returned the documents belonging to the government when asked, there'd have been no problem. Pence found he had documents, and he let the FBI search his house, no warrant necessary. Biden had documents, and he did the same. Both hope to be candidates, and it's right to investigate them and charge them if they've broken the law. Of course, as Prez, Biden could just pardon himself. No charges were filed against Pence because he cooperated.

Anyway, you can read the indictment (list of charges) here: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/13/full-text-of-the-donald-trump-indictment
Numbers 19 - 22 are frightening, imo.

[origami_itto]

If its still possible for someone from the other party to win the presidency,,,
Wonder what happens to biden family and gang

Well I would hope that if they have audio tape of Biden saying "I could have declassified this when I was president but I didn't so it's still secret and I shouldn't be showing it to you but whatever, take a look" that they would lock him up for a while and bar him from holding public office.

[windwalker]

The charges have literally nothing to do with classification. It doesn't matter whether they were classified or not. The issue is ownership, and the Presidential Records Act separates what he owns as President (his notes, personal possessions) from US government documents. The latter belong to the people.

Even if it's argued that he could declassify our nuclear strike capabilities and show them off to his friends, you'd have to be a fool to believe it's a good idea or safe for the country. Some have said, "Oh well, but nothing bad happened." But, that's the problem. We don't know -our government doesn't know -and we can't know without compromising the intelligence.

Worse, if he'd just have returned the documents belonging to the government when asked, there'd have been no problem. Pence found he had documents, and he let the FBI search his house, no warrant necessary. Biden had documents, and he did the same. Both hope to be candidates, and it's right to investigate them and charge them if they've broken the law. Of course, as Prez, Biden could just pardon himself. No charges were filed against Pence because he cooperated.

Anyway, you can read the indictment (list of charges) here: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/13/full-text-of-the-donald-trump-indictment
Numbers 19 - 22 are frightening, imo.

No charges filed on others for breaking the law and then cooperating when found out.

Haha

Sounds like you need to do some reading on the constitution to understand what’s happening
and why

It’s not about Trump

Wait and see what happens

[windwalker]

Biden and Pence, as vice presidents at the time or senators .

Should have faced charges.
There is no provision that allows them to have documents outside of the place where they could view them.
Anyone thinking it’s a matter of a simple mistake, has never handled, classified or secret documentation .

[Steve James]

No they shouldn't have faced charges because no Grand Jury thought they had committed a crime. Again, the crime isn't mistakenly taking home documents; the crime is not giving them back. Anybody can make a mistake. However, keeping the documents after they've been requested is definitely a crime.

So, let's say that he declassified documents while he was president, those documents don't then become his personal property. Period. If the DoD has plans on how to attack Iran, for ex., if they're declassified, what happens to them? They don't become the President's; they never belonged to him. Declassification is not possession. Then there's the "criminal" element, which is that he knowingly took the documents and knowingly withheld them. They call that criminal intent.

Afa the Constitution, I'm citing the opinion of Trump's ex-Attorney General and his ex-National Intelligence Agency chief. Not to mention, he just gave an interview on FOX that was a confession. Normally, targets of prosecution don't confess because they have a Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate themselves.

And, afa the election, Hillary ain't running for anything. Trump's FBI director announced that she was being investigated in October 2016 (right before the election).

[windwalker]

No they shouldn't have faced charges because no Grand Jury thought they had committed a crime. Again, the crime isn't mistakenly taking home documents; the crime is not giving them back. Anybody can make a mistake. However, keeping the documents after they've been requested is definitely a crime.

Its not a crime to remove top secret or classified information from the places that they'er reviewed in...?
This is not a crime,,,mistakenly taking them home

.

So, let's say that he declassified documents while he was president, those documents don't then become his personal property. Period. If the DoD has plans on how to attack Iran, for ex., if they're declassified, what happens to them?
They don't become the President's; they never belonged to him.
Declassification is not possession.

Then there's the "criminal" element, which is that he knowingly took the documents and knowingly withheld them. They call that criminal intent.

Afa the Constitution, I'm citing the opinion of Trump's ex-Attorney General and his ex-National Intelligence Agency chief. Not to mention, he just gave an interview on FOX that was a confession. Normally, targets of prosecution don't confess because they have a Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate themselves.

And, afa the election, Hillary ain't running for anything. Trump's FBI director announced that she was being investigated in October 2016 (right before the election).

lets not..."say".

The executive branch embodied by one person holding office of the president , making it very different than the other branches of government.....
The Constitution the governing document that defines the power and limits of the office and how the three branches of government operate..


what part of the constitution did the former executive of the executive branch violate ?

who can do what

The Archivist works for the president, does not control the president

During a President's term of office, the Archivist may maintain and preserve Presidential records on behalf of the President, including records in digital or electronic form. The President shall remain exclusively responsible for custody, control, and access to such Presidential records.

The Archivist may not disclose any such records, except under direction of the President, until the conclusion of a President's term of office, if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, or such other period provided for under section 2204 of this title.

(2) Any such record which does not contain information within a category restricted by the President under subsection (a), or contains information within such a category for which the duration of restricted access has expired, shall be exempt from the provisions of subsection (c) until the earlier of—

(A) the date which is 5 years after the date on which the Archivist obtains custody of such record pursuant to section 2203(d)(1); 1 or

(B) the date on which the Archivist completes the processing and organization of such records or integral file segment thereof.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed to confirm, limit, or expand any constitutionally-based privilege which may be available to an incumbent or former President.

Biden the current holder of the executive office.
Suspended the former executive's executive privilege that all other presidents have, to enable the proceedings to go forward
otherwise they could not...


Gonna work real well when the other party of the Banana republic gains control of the office....

[Steve James]

Biden the current holder of the executive office.
Suspended the former executive's executive privilege that all other presidents have, to enable the proceedings to go forward
otherwise they could not...

That's just a lie. Biden didn't suspend Trump's executive privilege. Biden didn't extend his own executive privilege to Trump's documents.

Gonna work real well when the other party of the Banana republic gains control of the office....

You have that backwards. The "other" party has members saying they'll defund the FBI, replace the Justice Department, put current members of the justice, legislative, and executive branches in jail. The most extreme threaten executions. That sounds like Columbia in the 90s. But, some people wish that Biden would do what Trump would do if in power right now.

Anyway, all we know from the defenses of Trump is that everyone knows he's guilty as charged. Of course, a future president might pardon him or he might try to pardon himself. But, pardons are an acknowledgement of guilt and acts of forgiveness. Someone may argue that they can legally forgive themselves, but it doesn't really mean anything.

One more time. No President OWNS national defense material, CIA reports, or other Government documents. He only owns materials that he creates, not all government documents, classified or not. And, if he declassifies something, it Still belongs to the government. Anyone should be able to understand why that's the case. Some of the documents might be important to the government. If not to use, then to know where those documents are and who has them or has seen them.

This isn't personal; it's common sense. Better hope that if the other party gets into office, their leader doesn't do stupid stuff like that.

[windwalker]

Executive Privilege Means Nothing if the Next President Can Waive It | Opinion


Once again, they went to Biden to get around trumps claim to executive privilege .

Why, why would they have to go to a sitting president to get around executive privilege claimed by a former president? .

As to what was in the documents, neither you or I know.

We do know that Biden had classified documents at his residence in other places that he was not supposed to have at his former positions in office .

Don’t take it as personal only an example of how the banana republic works and the Fiction of the two- system