Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Rum, beer, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby edededed on Tue May 27, 2008 6:13 pm

Walter Joyce wrote:This is not the truth, this is the "trickle down economics theory" that Reagan was so fond of and that has been refuted by economists for years. And the money that this 1% holds on to, and they wouldn't be in that 1% without holding on to a lot of it, doesn't return to the economy, it stays in their coffers.

No matter how you want to try and spin it the plain fact is that wen 1% of the population controls more than 50% of the wealth there is something wrong with the economy.

I'm not sure of those who don't see this have aspirations to join that 1%, but if thats the case face it, if you're over 35 and you haven't got there yet, its not going to happen.

As much as I love this country I am saddened at how we have gone backwards culturally and politically since Jimmy Carter left office. The well known American political and cultural scholar Daniel Aaron was recently quoted as saying that when he views the current landscape of the country he has devoted his adult life to as a foreign diplomat and champion of the American culture and system of values, that he is troubled to find that since the 1980s there has been a growing fascination and preoccupation in this country with money and power.

He finds himself alienated from his own country. He said, "America is promises, but this idea has been eviscerated. The idea of a certain American universalism, of what America once meant, has become this insatiable pursuit of money and power." The interviewer noted that "This is not said with anger but with apparent resignation."

I am not as old as this as Mr. Aaron, but I too feel that the ideals of this country that I learned as a youth have been set aside.

Rugged individualism has been replaced by fascination with the self and and I got mine, now go get yours attitude. A sense of community has been replaced by sectarianism and greed.

Respect for our political system and institutions have been replaced by a convenient cynicism that is used to justify doing nothing, because after all what is the point?

Attempts to address serious issues like the destruction of the environment, the destruction of the middle class by the exporting of manufacturing and service jobs, the exploitation of the working class by credit card companies and mortgage scams are dismissed as unfounded left wing rhetoric that is not supported by science or just good business practices or problems that could be solved with a simple caveat emptor argument.

We have become a sound bite culture that is faced with complex issues and problems that will have long term effects, its time we grow up and find a common ground that will give us back a sense of national identity and community that is not based on the Marlboro man as a faux cultural icon.

If you think it's ok for 1% of the population to control 50% of the wealth in this country, then please explain to me how this is somehow different from have a noble class, the very structure that the founding fathers sought to escape to create a place where all people are recognized as equal and given the same chance to succeed.

If you think that we are all given the same chance to succeed and that money has no influence on the outcome I'll ask you the questions Chris Rock posed in one of his comedy routines.

Where can a black man who graduated college with a C average expect to find a job?

Where can a white man who graduated college with a C average expect to find a job?

And to add to his questions, it seems we have to ask what can a man of mixed heritage, an impeccable academic record and a history of public service expect from our political system?

Rant over.

I don't have the answers, and my questions and viewpoint may be flawed, but I felt the need to express myself honestly in the hopes of learning something in the process.


Good post, Walter.

I don't have all the answers, either, but I do feel rather uncomfortable when people in Japan (for example) note to me how they have seen many American companies do very draconian/self-serving things... This in Japan, where (in my opinion) they mostly lack a strong sense of morality/ethics (instead, they have a shame-based society). I am not old, even if I am a bit old fashioned, but I do imagine Americans as having a strong individual morality (own beliefs, sense of guilt, etc.) - or at least we did. Or didn't we? Either way, I do think we SHOULD have this.

As for me...

Where can a yellow man who graduated college with a B+ average expect to find a (better) job?
User avatar
edededed
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:21 am

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby klonk on Tue May 27, 2008 11:29 pm

I want you all to remember your positions, which you have stated, if energy prices level off and decline as alternatives emerge.

Ask years later if you were right.

Basically I see two positions here, oil prices as the imaginary hobgoblin of the day, demanding that we take action, confiscate comapnies and kick the dogs of anyone who objects, make gasoline a civil right, or,

2. Wait and see what resourceful people do to fix the gas thing. This is the problem Communism revealed to us. If you place too many restrictions, all the clever chaps end up shot or on a collective farm, or they keep quiet for good reason, and you can't solve problems that way.

"There oughta be a law!" This is the exclamation of the fool or the tyrant.
Last edited by klonk on Tue May 27, 2008 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
User avatar
klonk
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6776
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby Darthwing Teorist on Wed May 28, 2008 7:04 am

Well, I'm a fool then. The oil industry has too much inertia to make changes fast enough to prevent either social unrest or ecological problems.

The revolution is coming, baby. The revolution is coming.
И ам тхе террор тхат флапс ин тхе нигхт! И ам тхе црамп тхат руинс ёур форм! И ам... ДАРКWИНГ ДУЦК!
User avatar
Darthwing Teorist
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5199
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:09 pm
Location: half a meter from my monitor

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby Teazer on Wed May 28, 2008 7:20 am

klonk wrote:"There oughta be a law!" This is the exclamation of the fool or the tyrant.


That said, it is up to the government & those that elect them to determine the nation's tax policy. If they want to introduce progressive taxes for companies in general making over a particular level, that's fine, but not when it singles out a particular industry. The tax laws would need to be particularly carefully written though.
Why does man Kill? He kills for food.
And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
User avatar
Teazer
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2206
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:27 am

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Wed May 28, 2008 8:30 am

There are too few that control too much in our capitalist society.
This is true in commie societies as well.

Neither is better, they are both the same in my opinion because they both employ hierarchical power structures based on have and have not peoples.

In communism it is the politburo who live decadent lives and in capitalism it is the rich who do this.

people who work, are not rewarded sufficiently and people who do not work are.

Struggle is futile. A general strike would be cool, followed by revolution and ultimately a new world emerges and we start again because we are fundamentally lazy greedy and apparently, en masse, we are stupid as stupid gets. :)
Last edited by Darth Rock&Roll on Wed May 28, 2008 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Coconuts. Bananas. Mangos. Rice. Beans. Water. It's good.
User avatar
Darth Rock&Roll
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:42 am
Location: Canada

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby Bär on Wed May 28, 2008 8:51 am

The oil/energy companies will control whatever flavor of energy is around be it nat gas, oil, nukes, hyrdo, whatever. I don't want that kind of control over me - why do you antigovernment types want & LOVE to be controlled by a fucking oil company? I'm always very confused by that. Call me stupid.
User avatar
Bär
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:28 am

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby steelincotton on Wed May 28, 2008 9:07 am

We are in real trouble in this country, and the future is not boding well for us working class folks (ie. middle class and the working poor).

Since, basically, we no longer produce ANYTHING here in the US, we have become a nation of consumers and services; nothing more. For the most part (discounting Doctors, lawyers, CEO's, etc.), the only work left will be in services (think McDonalds/food industry and other low income menial jobs like Walmart greeter or Home Depot stockboy). In ten years, we'll all be greatful to have a $15.00 per hour slave job with no overtime and no health benefits. The middle class is now in the process of being eliminated, steadily and surely, and when Americans stop consuming, which is happening as we speak, our country will break down.

I'll give the U$A 5 more years before we become a total fascist enitity, ie. Corporate BOUGHT & OWNED! [perhaps if Obama becomes president he can stall the process 10 years more]. Ever see the movie 1984? Well, we might all be living it in the not too distant future. Without REAL ethics reform and government standards and agencies protecting us poor working people, we are powerless, and doomed. Corporations control Congress, the president, and ulitmately all of us. Who if not our own goverment is going to protect our drinking water? Who if not our own government is going to protect our food processes? Who if not our own goverment is going to implement law and policy so that Corporations stop polluting our earth, soil, and the very air we breathe? I understand there is lots of government waste, but without a ethical and honest government in place with People's best interests at heart, I suggest we are all heading for disaster. Either from toxicity in our foods, poisons in the air, or pollution in our water and soils. Perhaps I may sound a tad on the extreme side, but I believe the time is coming soon, or in the near future where revolution becomes a more positive action than a negative one. I hope I'm wrong.
steelincotton
Huajing
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:29 am

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Wed May 28, 2008 9:24 am

5 more years? You've been practically a fascist entity since the 80's! lol.
Just dressed up not so ominously.

But American Foreign policy is getting more and more fascist with each passing day.
Starting with your PNAC controlled white house administration.
PNAC is a fascist entity with many members actively advising or in President Bush's cabinet.
Neo-Cons are by their own doctrines, default fascists
Last edited by Darth Rock&Roll on Wed May 28, 2008 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Coconuts. Bananas. Mangos. Rice. Beans. Water. It's good.
User avatar
Darth Rock&Roll
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:42 am
Location: Canada

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby qiphlow on Wed May 28, 2008 12:22 pm

Darth Rock&Roll wrote:5 more years? You've been practically a fascist entity since the 80's! lol.
Just dressed up not so ominously.

But American Foreign policy is getting more and more fascist with each passing day.
Starting with your PNAC controlled white house administration.
PNAC is a fascist entity with many members actively advising or in President Bush's cabinet.
Neo-Cons are by their own doctrines, default fascists

agreed
esoteric voodoo wizard
User avatar
qiphlow
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3925
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 9:09 am

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby Buddy on Wed May 28, 2008 12:27 pm

The sky is falling. ::)
Buddy
Great Old One
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 5:23 am
Location: The center of the universe

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby qiphlow on Wed May 28, 2008 12:46 pm

whick is why i wear a hat. so the sky doesn't fuck up my coiff.
esoteric voodoo wizard
User avatar
qiphlow
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3925
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 9:09 am

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby Mike Strong on Wed May 28, 2008 1:18 pm

Bar,

... Because under the dominion of Robber Barons I can allways find a watershed of freedom for me and mine; while under the jackboot of authoritaraian government there is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide...

Stupid !
Mike Strong

 

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby Bär on Wed May 28, 2008 1:48 pm

-sumo-

You know you want to be lorded over by some tyrant, no matter the source. You love it.

;D
User avatar
Bär
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:28 am

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Wed May 28, 2008 1:50 pm

"don't taze me bro" is something maybe you could say someday? lol
Coconuts. Bananas. Mangos. Rice. Beans. Water. It's good.
User avatar
Darth Rock&Roll
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:42 am
Location: Canada

Re: Sen. Maxine Waters threatens to Nationalize

Postby somatai on Wed May 28, 2008 1:51 pm

the usa was founded as a gov't for and of the people....... make the system work or else lets have full on no rules anarchy.....corporations have even more motive to control and even more power to do so than your dreaded gov't.......the people have no control over the corporations since they buy their freedom and created their rules
somatai

 

Previous

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests