BJJ Boot Scoot Boogie

[Dmitri]

Well that escalated quickly

[origami_itto]

A useful idiot is a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause—particularly a bad cause originating from a devious, ruthless source—without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically being used by the cause's leaders.[1][2] Erroneously attributed to Vladimir Lenin, the term was often used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and psychological manipulation.[1] Similar terms also exist in other languages.

https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/07/03/vladimir-putins-useful-idiots

In early may Russia’s ambassador to Germany threw a party to honour Soviet victory in the second world war. Guests at the embassy, a Stalin-era colossus that occupies more German territory than the nearby parliament building, included a host of dignitaries. The last boss of communist East Germany, Egon Krenz, now 86, mingled under the chandeliers with Gerhard Schröder, chancellor of united Germany from 1998 to 2005 (and, more recently, a lobbyist for Russian energy firms). Tino Chrupalla, co-leader of Alternative for Germany (afd), a far-right party, sported a tie in the colours of the Russian Federation.

The event earned a bit of scorn in the German press, but little other notice. Sixteen months into Russia’s war on Ukraine public opinion in Germany, as across Europe, overwhelmingly views Russia as an aggressor to be shunned, and Ukraine as a defender deserving help. The purveyors of Russian influence now stand diminished. Mr Schröder, for instance, chaired the board of the now-closed Nord Stream pipelines that addicted Germany to Russian gas. Last summer Russia shut the pipes, which mysterious saboteurs then blew up. The ex-chancellor has been bumped from clubs, disinvited from his Social Democratic Party’s functions (though he remains a party member), and stripped of government-provided office facilities. As for Mr Chrupalla, the afd leader’s cosiness with Russia did not just annoy German tabloids. Leaked messages reveal dismay among his own party’s mps.

Yet even if Russia’s effort to project persuasive power across Europe has not quite succeeded, neither has it completely failed. A subculture of what Germans dismiss as Putinversteher—sympathisers who “understand” the Russian leader Vladimir Putin—thrives outside the mainstream. Throughout Europe their whispering forms a leitmotif in the rumble of complaint about seemingly unrelated troubles such as inflation, crumbling public services, overbearing regulations and fears of immigration. The grumblers have only just begun to challenge the scale of their governments’ generosity to Ukraine, which by February this year amounted to more than €60bn ($65bn) in economic and military aid from Brussels and the eu’s individual members (and €70bn if Britain is added, a sum roughly equal to America’s contribution). If Ukraine’s fight goes on too long or goes wrong, there are plenty waiting in the wings to take up the blame game.

Europe’s “useful idiots”, a cold-war term for unwitting allies of communism, span a wide spectrum. In politics, parties on both the far right and far left disagree on much; over Ukraine these extremes have often converged in demanding an instant “peace” that would in effect reward Russian aggression with land. In the media and academe, intellectuals still seem happy to ignore evidence of Russia’s imperial intent and its drift into criminality, and to bemoan European entanglement in what they parse as a proxy war between America and Russia, or perhaps, speculating more grandly still, between America and China. And in the world of business, despite multiple rounds of Western sanctions, Russia still has plenty of “friends” too.

Mr Putin’s enablers include several European governments. Viktor Orban, the prime minister of Hungary since 2010, has been the most obvious. The populist strongman has repeatedly criticised Western support for Ukraine and continued Hungary’s imports of Russian gas. His government also refuses to allow the transit of weapons given to Ukraine by Hungary’s fellow members of nato and the eu. Next-door Austria has, more quietly but equally profitably, largely sat out the struggle, too, citing its non-membership of nato and self-appointed role as a bridge between East and West, offering little aid to Ukraine even as its trade with Russia has surged.

Greece, another eu member, is complying with the eu’s sanctions, but has balked at tightening any further those on shipping Russian oil, perhaps because Greek firms happen to pocket so much from the trade. Only recently and under heavy American pressure did Cyprus, an offshore financial haven, shut down some 4,000 local bank accounts held by Russians. Facing less pressure, non-eu countries such as Turkey and Serbia don’t even bother to disguise the lucrative back-door service they provide to Russia.

Some countries have twisted seemingly noble intentions into policies that warm Mr Putin’s heart. Citing its vaunted neutrality, Switzerland has wielded arcane local laws to block the supply of arms to Ukraine, including 96 mothballed Leopard tanks sitting in Italy that happen to belong to a private Swiss firm. Scoring repeated own goals with freedom-of-speech principles, police in Sweden have permitted public burnings of the Koran. This has hugely irked Muslim-majority Turkey, which wields a veto over Sweden’s bid to join nato. And Mr Putin has gleefully trolled the Swedes. On a trip to Dagestan before the Eid holiday at the end of June, he had himself filmed tenderly holding a Koran, as he explained that under Russian law it is a crime to desecrate holy things.

Yet even solid-looking bricks in the would-be European wall of support for Ukraine can crumble. Slovakia, for instance, has been a vital conduit for Western aid and recently pledged its fleet of 13 Soviet-era Mig-29 fighter jets to the Ukrainian air force. But polls show that the party of Robert Fico, a Russophile leftist who has blamed “Ukrainian fascists” for provoking Mr Putin, looks likely to win national elections scheduled for September.

France is a linchpin of both nato and the eu. But a French parliamentary panel recently scolded Marine Le Pen, the closest challenger to President Emmanuel Macron in last year’s election, for parroting Russian propaganda following its annexation of Crimea in 2014. Ms Le Pen strenuously denies that her defence of Mr Putin had anything to do with the €9m in loans her party received that year from Russian-controlled banks. She has condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, but last October, seven months into the war, she declared that sanctions on Russia were not working.

In Italy, although the hard-right prime minister, Giorgia Meloni, is a strong supporter of Ukraine, Matteo Salvini, who leads the second-biggest party in her coalition, is another opponent of sanctions and, at least up until the invasion, was a declared fan of Mr Putin’s.

Germany, like France, seems a strong pillar. Yet the afd, bluntly described by the head of the country’s internal intelligence agency as a propagator of Russian narratives, has been surging in the polls. It is now in a dead tie for second place with the ruling Social Democrats. At the opposite political pole Sahra Wagenknecht, a telegenic leftist and at-all-costs peacenik, says pollsters tell her she could win 19-30% of a German national vote. Although public support for helping Ukraine remains strong, the trend is drifting downwards.

Useful-idiot narratives are surprisingly resilient. Their main points—that nato “provoked” Russia’s repeated attacks on and eventual invasion of Ukraine, that Ukraine is an artificial entity created on land that is rightfully Russia’s, and that America pours oil on this fire to sell weapons and sustain its global hegemony—echo in various ways. One is what Italians call benaltrismo or whataboutery: nato attacked Serbia in 1999 and Libya in 2011, plus America invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, so what’s the big deal if Russia misbehaves? Another variety is dietrismo, the notion that there must be some “inside” story behind events. Writing in the New Left Review, Wolfgang Streeck, a German sociologist, posits that the hidden purpose of the crisis is to set the stage for putting a fearful eu under the thumb of a pumped-up nato.

What seems to link Europe’s far right, far left and “intellectual” opposition to Western policy is something simpler, however. It is a hoary, cold-war-style anti-Americanism. The East German-born Mr Chrupalla, for instance, insists the Amis have profited from Ukraine’s war by forcing Germany to switch from piped Russian natural gas to costlier liquified gas shipped from America. This is a trap, he hints, because imported American energy is so much more expensive that German manufacturers will have to shift production to America. Ms Wagenknecht, his left-wing rival, believes America forced the war on Russia by attempting to pull Ukraine into its “sphere of influence”.

At a recent political rally near Berlin Olaf Scholz, Germany’s chancellor, found himself heckled by a chorus of beefy peaceniks shouting “Warmonger!” Normally polite, soft-spoken and unflappable, Mr Scholz roared back into the microphone that it was Mr Putin who wanted to destroy and conquer Ukraine. “If you loudmouths had even a little bit of brain, you would know the real warmonger!”

[Bao]

That is just the kind of propaganda stupidity that I try to avoid. The world is not black and white. Rather all very gray and ugly.

I like to read history and context, and the I like to read unfiltered what Ukrainian officials, Russian officials, Israeli officials and Palestinian officials have to say. I like to read reports and see social media from all of these countries and video clips directly from all of these places. I watch videos from Ukraine soldiers videos, see what they do, hear what they say. I listen to statements directly from Israeli officials. I read the reports from the Palestinian resistance. Some channels though are very hard to follow. Gaza Live, Quds and similar. Dead children, videos of Israel intentionally bombing ambulances, Israeli snipers killing hospital personnel, children and women raising white flags. There's so much things out there, as a video w a Ukrainian commander throwing a hand grenade into a car with soldiers who refuse to go out and fight. Horrible stuff. But it's all there, you can see the world with your own eyes instead of "reading about it". The world has never been more transparent. That is why mainstream media desperately wants to keep people ignorant by blocking things coming out from Russia, China, Iran and of course from the occupied Palestine.

[GrahamB]

yeah, anybody who starts using the words "mainstream media" in their posts is pretty far gone down the Internet rabbit hole. Usually. Classic presentation here. Just another sad victim of "I do my own research".

He's beyond help now. RIP Bao's brain.

[origami_itto]

yeah, anybody who starts using the words "mainstream media" in their posts is pretty far gone down the Internet rabbit hole. Usually. Classic presentation here. Just another sad victim of "I do my own research".

He's beyond help now. RIP Bao's brain.

It's funny how the "free thinkers" all come to the same conclusion affirming Putin's rhetoric, every, single, time...

It's amazing how framing can convince people. Show them a burning car, tell them a Ukranian commander blew it up for insubordination, that becomes the truth and you can't tell them otherwise.

The obsession bleeds over into completely unrelated topics. Sources of information become fewer and produce more feedback loops with less and less verification of sources.

Dirty brown people laying down, must be victims of bombing!

Humans are amazing...ly stupid sometimes.

[Steve James]

Well, some people only accept news they get from the internet and social media. Anyway, what matters is what they do with the information.

Afa FB, I don't use it for information, only contact with family and friends. Yeah, that means my feed is biased; and I'll get ads for stuff someone else has liked. Meh, I don't buy it.

Afa Xitter, I unsubscribed because I won't give Elon any profit from his megaphone. I don't need to talk to the world, and I sure won't pay for it.

I think we understand the world we see immediately around us. Otherwise, we just hear stories. On the news, some say that crime is rapidly rising; others cite stats showing it's lower than it was. So, what do I "believe"? Neither. I can't see either. Now, somebody living in some rural area has to choose. but what do they know? Then they argue among themselves about it.

[origami_itto]

Well that escalated quickly

Entirely unlike the "Stranded Turtle Defense" Grappling Match.

[Dmitri]

On the news, some say that crime is rapidly rising; others cite stats showing it's lower than it was. So, what do I "believe"? Neither. I can't see either. Now, somebody living in some rural area has to choose. but what do they know? Then they argue among themselves about it.

Well, "on the news" is too wide of a brush to paint things with. For example, there's "news" from AP, a globally trusted source that proved itself since 1846, and there's "news" from some guy on YouTube who popped up a couple of years ago to make some easy money by providing highly targeted content devoid of any serious research or corroboration.

[origami_itto]

On the news, some say that crime is rapidly rising; others cite stats showing it's lower than it was. So, what do I "believe"? Neither. I can't see either. Now, somebody living in some rural area has to choose. but what do they know? Then they argue among themselves about it.

Well, "on the news" is too wide of a brush to paint things with. For example, there's "news" from AP, a globally trusted source that proved itself since 1846, and there's "news" from some guy on YouTube who popped up a couple of years ago to make some easy money by providing highly targeted content devoid of any serious research or corroboration.

And then there's the hard-hitting TRUTH BOMBS exposing the real reason that the USA is responsible for the Ukraine, and that if they would just stop supporting the resistance it could all be over with much less fuss, from that paragon of unbiased reliability... RT.

[everything]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

[Steve James]

Afa "news," there's what comes from dedicated "news" services, and then there's what comes from sources other than those. My main point is that it's what I do with the information that matters.

There are news organizations that simply report without giving an opinion on what's reported. Nowadays, people argue about the opinions. So, pick a war. There are people who'll justify either side. That becomes the "news," not the fact that 20K people have died. Ok, pick a pandemic.

However, nowadays, there are deliberate, dedicated attempts at contradiction. There are news organizations devoted to claiming that other organizations are wrong. This results in media silos where only information that contradicts 'mainstream media' is presented. The problem is that this is done for commercial reasons -to sell merch through clickbait.

ANyway, when I read a headline, I can usually tell whether It's worth the time to read.

[windwalker]

THE STATE OF THE US EMPIRE - THE EVIL OF TWO LESSERS

Takes a lot of effort to collect information, time and effort...
Lots of good information sources providing alternative narratives, helping to explain what some might feel is happening, but not understand why

[windwalker]

Ali vs. Inoki: The Damage Dealt

[wayne hansen]

That was the fight I thought of
Inoki was a brilliant tactician
Ali went to hospital that night

[Steve James]

Well, Ali was clearly more injured, but the match was officially a draw. Anyway, if the contest rules allow it, nothing wrong with it. My point afa to op was that the one standing doesn't have any obligation to approach someone on the ground.