Long Haul Covid

[Trick]

The problem is not that some people experienced difficulties after vaccination. It’s that some people (not necessarily vaccinated) try to shift the narrative away from the dangers of Covid towards the dangers of vaccination, while being perfectly aware that the death toll of the former was several orders of magnitude higher. Simple statistics.

In sweden about 7000 ppl more than the regular estimated 92 000 died in 2020, death by Covid reported as reason for it while death of other way had an overall decrease , the overall population still increased by about 50 000 ppl but which was lesser by about 20 000 from previous years.
In 2021 the population growth was back to its “normal” of about 70 000 .
Then in 2022 the population increase began to go down again and in 2023 in was down to an all(postwar)time low as meager 30 000, not because of increased death rate but rather decreased birthrates.

Looking at overal statistics is as looking at an highly irregular spiderweb
But yet it’s the big picture over time that probably gives more correct picture of what went on during the pandemic, have patience

[Trick]

Omicron

.

With that one it was almost as the namers of it told the world- “after this one” - “we’re almost finished “

‘The little end’ - Omicron

[windwalker]

It actually operates in an exactly opposite manner to your quote—opinion of one doctor backed with zero evidence doesn’t mean much. But hey, I’m telling this to a person who sincerely believes that he can emit qi

I don’t understand how doctors

and other health staff can be so confident about the vaccine and not validate the voices of people who report being affected by the vaccine.

It’s utterly heartless and very disappointing. After all, there are healthy individuals who suddenly die a day after the vaccine. It’s obviously dangerous…

I also don’t understand how religious people, whose father or family members are affected by the vaccine, can still think positively and are not as vocal in criticizing the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine as they were in encouraging it before.

They also remain silent on all the abuses committed against those who reject the vaccine.
[/b]

He changed his POV on empirical based evidence presented by those he treated.
What he wrote was an apology for advising them to use the vaccines.

There was / is an incentive by those making the vaccines, and those who benefit from the companies that make them...

Large pharmaceutical companies (= companies producing medical drugs), especially when these are seen as having a powerful and bad influence: He argued that the research scientists were too close to big pharma. funded by those in gov to make the studies, they need to have an expected conclusion to maintain the funding

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
Same warning

The problem , for profit incentive "capitalism" by the companies and the individuals within governments who benefit at the expense of those governed..



"Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and Dr. Gigi Foster
discuss the positive and negative attributes of the COVID-19 vaccines and what was learned over the course of the pandemic"

[ThomasK]

Yeah sure go fuck yourself man. I like you but that's just snobby, snooty, arrogant attitude.

Now I expect really hard for you to make a better reply. Let's see if THAT works.

@origami to avoid confusion

Well that's hurtful, I wasn't mean about it.
There was a lot of people encouraging FUD mainly for political reasons, part of the qanon funnel/pipeline.

You have people you trust telling you to expect something, it's real easy to find it.

The mind is powerful, i can easily make myself physically ill by overindulging in negativity.

Worrying and thinking and obsessing over a spot on your arm is a good way to convince yourself something is there. Especially with people reinforcing the perception.

The disinformation these days would have killed a conspiracy theorist from the 70s. They've learned how to hijack the fringe and get them carrying political messaging. It's brilliant but so disheartening. Average citizen really has no chance.

Good. It was supposed to be hurtful.

Yes you were mean about it. As I explained - what you said was condescending. You seriously think I haven't pondered and LIVED how deep the connection between mind and body goes? Really? If your opinion of me is that I haven't, then you're really way more clueless than I thought.

So I have no need to consider your remark nor give it any weight in what I experience. But now I do have a hint of what women feel when they go to the doc, describe legitimate health concerns and then are brushed off with 'oh it's just anxiety / hormones'. When in reality it's ovarian or cervical cancer or related stuff.

I don't care about politics anymore. It's a waste of time.

[ThomasK]

Hope you find something that relieves any problems you're still suffering. Take it easy.

Although very rare, people have died as a result of conditions brought about by COVID vaccines, so it's rather weird to automatically suggest somebody is 'crazy' when they report potentially worrying cardiovascular symptoms. I hope you are well, Thomas. That you say it's gotten better is encouraging so hopefully there's nothing to it.

Thanks for the good wishes. I got off relatively easy. Some people have legit life debilitating issues to the point of considering suicide. Not getting better over 3 or 4 years. Being almost bedridden in their early twenties.

[ThomasK]

Yeah, I was a strong believer that COVID-19 was a hoax

I believe CVD19 is a real sickness with terrible casualties. I don't know where and how it began. What does it matter to me? What difference does that make in my practical, concrete, day-to-day life? Being concernced and stressed out about even more opinions and unverifiable half truths doesn't do me any favors in my growth.

Yes the world is big and complex. Agencies do all sorts of crazy stuff. Regular people too. You will always have greedy idiots fighting amongst each other for arbitrary spoils. Problem is, the first one to lay down arms will be shot. So around and around we go. That's just the way it is. The world and life itself will never be perfect. I won't get stressed about forcing people to create a better world for tomorrow.

[ThomasK]

Although very rare, people have died as a result of conditions brought about by COVID vaccines, so it's rather weird to automatically suggest somebody is 'crazy' when they report potentially worrying cardiovascular symptoms. I hope you are well, Thomas. That you say it's gotten better is encouraging so hopefully there's nothing to it.

Not saying crazy. I'm the last one to try to call someone crazy, just saying there's a ton of bad information and influence and a million real and imaginary causes for vague symptoms as described. VARS is a cesspool of bad information that people use as proof of causation in cases like "He died three days after getting the shot?" "Was it a fever, pneumonia, cardiac arrest?" "No, hit by a car while jaywalking. He never would have crossed against the light before he got that damn vaccine!"

Maybe it all - being healthy or Covid sick was all part of some sort of huge global mind manipulation test ?

I got all my vaccinations, got a mild case of COVID in 2021. I knew people that barely missed getting on the ventilators. People that died. People with family that died.

I never thought it was a hoax.

Though the weirdest part for me was I got my knee surgery in November 2019 and for the first time in my life caught a case of pneumonia, had to be through hospital contact, but then I was on heavy painkillers which have a respiratory depressant effect and still smoking a lot of marijuana so... who knows.

I think the whole global conspiracy gives far too much credit to the people in charge and their ability to work together on a common goal.

About the only thing they can agree on is keeping us producing value for them to leech. In any upset there are going to be people that capitalize on the problems to come out better than they were going in, and the big economic interests are going to make sure those innovations are brought to heel. That's your global conspiracy and cabal. The market and many individual (state and corporate) actor's attempts to influence it. It's all in broad daylight.

In the whole COVID kerfuffle there were some winners and losers and basically everybody with power and money wants to get more by taking it from wherever they can get it.

So global mindfucks? We're soaking in it, but not due to the coordinated efforts of a single agenda. We've got so much bad and conflicting information drowning out sense, and (in the USA at least) our education system (and intellectualism in general, let's be honest) has been under such a prolonged and brutal attack that most people have no ability to sort through it and arrive at a well informed and critically reasoned opinion. It's just not possible.

They don't need to blind us with their brilliance when we're all baffled by their bullshit.

So with so much conflicting information and so many filters designed to package particular narratives, it's just a matter of which demographic your in that determines which firehose cannon of emotionally manipulative pre-packaged perspectives to give you the comfort of a consistent and friendly voice telling you which other people are to blame for your fears.

I WISH it was some grand scheme, that would have the potential for intelligent guidance, this is just a global "Lord of the Flies".

Instead, you've got countries spending fortunes on confusing each other's citizens...

Man... I cannot get started on this shit right now.

Fuck Putin.

You're denying people suffer injury from the CVD vaccine. Simple as that. Not all may do so, some suffer more than others. To say it's all imaginary is bullshit. Are you aware of any research that's going on in that direction? I doubt it.

I also never believed it was a flat out hoax. I was concerned about an experimental vaccine with lacking testing being admnistered to everybody and evidently not without reason.

Now if you have to make a difficult decision as a governing body and weigh out what will harm fewer people less: letting an unknown disease rampage or forcing people to get vacced? It's not easy. In both cases you will potentially harm people.

('CVD could also be lab engineered bio weapon and together with vacc be used as a form of population control...' What would be the use of holding such an opinion? It would only be another lever for people to control you.)

'So global mindfucks? We're soaking in it, but not due to the coordinated efforts of a single agenda. We've got so much bad and conflicting information drowning out sense, and (in the USA at least) our education system (and intellectualism in general, let's be honest) has been under such a prolonged and brutal attack that most people have no ability to sort through it and arrive at a well informed and critically reasoned opinion. It's just not possible.'

Uhm so why do you think your opinion is well informed and critically reasoned? You think you're extra special smart? Sure thing. You criticize people for blaming their fellows for their very own fears. Are you not doing the same? Blaming other people and blaming 'the system' is always easy when the truth is you may just suck. And need to get better, wiser, more healed, whatever.

How does worrying about other people's agenda bring yourself forward? In chess you can think about your opponents moves. But when you wake up and drink coffee, whom are you playing chess against? Only yourself.

Also, life is unfair. People aren't equal and don't get equal chances. Almost all people get some chances to move forward. Unfortunate shit happens.

[ThomasK]

Well, where I live, while people were saying covid was a hoax, there were ambulance sirens continuously day and night. I mean for months. That was before there were any vaccines. And it wasn't vaccines putting people in the hospital.

I have no idea what caused so many people to be hospitalized and/or die. I do know that today millions of people are still getting vaccinated, and I don't hear ambulances. To me, that means the vaccines are safer than covid.

Fortunately, I never caught covid or got sick at all, and I've received all the vaccines and boosters. It doesn't prove anything about either for anyone else. But, my closest friend was against taking the vaccine and he died from covid.

Sorry to hear that man.

[windwalker]

('CVD could also be lab engineered bio weapon and together with vacc be used as a form of population control...' What would be the use of holding such an opinion? It would only be another lever for people to control you.)

Don't know about the rationale for why it might've been made...
It is important to understand the origins of it so that a cure or vaccinations can be made to prevent it and also prevent the studies that might've created it in the first place from continuing...

[ThomasK]

It could also be an experimental bio-warfare project that got leaked on accident. Or not on accident, but to see what would happen. I don't care all that much. I trust in the crazy people governing us and in the people running the agencies. And their soldiers on the ground.

Sometimes I wondered what tremendous effort and measures it woud take to keep 8 billion people from murdering each other. It's obvious that sometimes mistakes happen and sometimes there are no easy choices.

Can I see the future? No. Do I want to? No. That could lead do doing great evil.

If you are involved in any such work, it would be very hard to lead a peaceful life. So no thank you.

There's all sorts of dangerous fuckery going on all the time. So far it has worked out.

[ThomasK]

Just putting a controversial statement out there: it's always easier and more temping to think black or white. Sometimes we don't catch ourselves when doing that. Me included.

[ThomasK]

Also I don't really care all that much about being right. Everybody shared interesting personal stories. Still love ya'll. All's good.

[ThomasK]

The problem is not that some people experienced difficulties after vaccination. It’s that some people (not necessarily vaccinated) try to shift the narrative away from the dangers of Covid towards the dangers of vaccination, while being perfectly aware that the death toll of the former was several orders of magnitude higher. Simple statistics.

Yup, it can be a simple decision: Both A and B cost lives, but B costs less lives. So we do B. Sucks for the people in group B.

Same way that Israel decides how they act in the recent conflict. Just sucks for the other people haha.

[origami_itto]

Thomas, I apologize for coming off as dismissive and rude here.

[Giles]

As a general FYI: I've had Covid19 three times over the last couple of years. Luckily the comparatively mild variants that came later. Each time was a bit different but they all had certain qualities in common. In each case I could feel it messing with my system in ways that went beyond any "little flu". In one bout I experienced my nervous system emitting sporadic 'flashes' when I was lying in bed, a little like mini lightning discharges. Didn't physically hurt or make me twitch but still startling.Quite unpleasant, lasted for several days. Maybe similar to what Thomas experienced.
I had something comparable many years ago when infected by glandular fever, also a virus. Although the 'flashes' then had a different quality.