Politics as usual

[steelincotton]

Oh, I dunno steel, Obama makes me uneasy. I mean, how do I know he's not going to put tin foil on the windows of the white house? That would just be tacky

[Buddy]

He hasn't referred to Trinity as his "former church." Until now. I think actually he's done a smart thing and I think it's going to be difficult for the Pubs to use the church against him now. My point is he's just another politician not shining ray of hope liberal media paints him to be. But as I'm conservative, I'm biased.

[TaoJoannes]

He hasn't referred to Trinity as his "former church." Until now. I think actually he's done a smart thing and I think it's going to be difficult for the Pubs to use the church against him now. My point is he's just another politician not shining ray of hope liberal media paints him to be. But as I'm conservative, I'm biased.

Wright is the pastor of Trinity Church, Obama has referred to him as "my former pastor" in every statement made since Wright was introduced to the public eye.

1 + 1 = mauve, apparently

[Buddy]

These are your words:
"From the day this whole Wright flap started, Obama reffered to trinity as "my former church" ..."

You're wrong, he didn't.

He certainly hasn't referred to Wright as his "former pastor" since Wright was introduced to the public eye. You need to research before you write. it was some time before he broke from Wright, when it became politically necessary to do so.

[TaoJoannes]

These are your words:
"From the day this whole Wright flap started, Obama reffered to trinity as "my former church" ..."

You're wrong, he didn't.

He certainly hasn't referred to Wright as his "former pastor" since Wright was introduced to the public eye. You need to research before you write. it was some time before he broke from Wright, when it became politically necessary to do so.

Okay, perhaps I had some confusion.

Apparently, Wright resigned in Feb, the media descended upon him in March, and now Obama has publicly quit the church in May.

This still begs the question, who cares?

[Buddy]

What can I say? Obviously a lot of people will care.

[TaoJoannes]

Sure, a lot of people who would rather see their candidate elected will make a huge fuss over it, but it has nothing to do with his integrity or ability to lead.

I don't know if you're a fan of Tool, but they have a song called "Hooker With A Penis" that is just as accurate in describing anyone who aspires to be a part of the American Political machine as it is relevant to any artist who aspires to be a part of the Major Label Recording Industry. All but the most naive and doe-eyed innocents understand this, and even the savviest can see that Obama's integrity and the congruence between his rhetoric and his accomplishments put him head and shoulders above the crowd with regard to honesty and ethics in politics.

Which, I suppose, is your point. That all politicians are shady by necessity to some degree. Compare Obama's perceived inconsistencies with ANY of the alternatives from this race and there's no question about who I'd trust with my PIN number.

Hooker With a Penis (warning, explicit lyrics)

I met a boy wearing Vans,
501s, and a dope beastie-tee,
nipple rings, and new tattoos
that claimed that he was OGT,
from '92, the first EP.
and in between sips of coke he told me
that he thought we were sellin' out,
layin' down, suckin' up to the man.
Well now I've got some advice for you, little buddy.
Before you point the finger
you should know that I'm the man,
and if I'm the man, then you're the man,
and he's the man as well
so you can point that fuckin' finger up your ass.
All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit, and you bought one.
So I've got some advice for you,
little buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that I'm the man.
If I'm the fuckin' man then you're the fuckin' man as well,
So you can point that fuckin' finger up your ass.
All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck. I sold out long before you ever heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record, Dip shit,
And you bought one.
All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar So ...
Shut up and
Buy my new record
Send more money
Fuck you, buddy

[Buddy]

But that's just you and your opinion.

"All but the most naive and doe-eyed innocents understand this, and even the savviest can see that Obama's integrity and the congruence between his rhetoric and his accomplishments put him head and shoulders above the crowd with regard to honesty and ethics in politics."

Accomplishments? Like what? I don't find him above either of the other two candidates. I think all are politics as usual. I don't see his appeal beyond empty sloganeering.

[TaoJoannes]

Oh, I dunno, just look at his 20 year history of public service. He didn't just walk into the senate as an affirmative action hire.
Plus all the good work he's done in the senate.

Just check his site: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
Under each of the areas of concern he has listed his definition of the current situation, how he thinks it should be, how he plans to accomplish those goals, and what he has done so far in his state and federal senate career to advance those causes.

And, by golly, it's all in plain, rational English, and not emotionally charged fear-mongering rhetoric or empty aspersions and conspiracy theories, like some other candidates.

I mean, I know, your mind is made up and there's no changing it, and even reading the pages mentioned will cause you emotional pain, I'm sure, if modern neuroscience research is in any way correct, but those who can get past the gut-reaction emotional responses and actually examine the facts, statements, and records dispassionately, rationally, and intelligently will see that the truth is plain and simple, he's the best candidate we've had in a long, long time.

[Buddy]

"I mean, I know, your mind is made up and there's no changing it, and even reading the pages mentioned will cause you emotional pain, I'm sure, if modern neuroscience research is in any way correct, but those who can get past the gut-reaction emotional responses and actually examine the facts, statements, and records dispassionately, rationally, and intelligently will see that the truth is plain and simple, he's the best candidate we've had in a long, long time."

I'd appreciate you keeping this about the subject and not resort to this stupid, sophomoric rhetoric. I'm trying to keep this civil and cogent. You know nothing about how or what I think so please don't presume to impose your silly opinions on my thinking.

Your assumption that he is the best candidate is NOT the truth, it's only your opinion and you are arguing for its own sake. I don't buy it for a heartbeat.

You'll pardon me if I don't find a candidates own propaganda particularly persuasive. Obama is an empty shirt without a real message beyond "the audacity of hope." Just another socialist wanting to redistribute wealth.

[nianfong]

it's funny how when you disagree with the media, you label it "the liberal media". karl rove brainwashed you good man.
when i disagree with the media I don't call it "the neo-con media". I just call it fucking retarded.

-Fong

[Buddy]

Well, it's not neo-con it IS liberal. CNN, ABC,CBS,NBC,MSNBC? The NY Times, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe are certainly liberal outposts.
But don't confuse me with the neo-cons. They are vile leeches. I NEVER voted for George Bush. I find him to be a buffoon and nothing but a puppet for Cheney and his ilk.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

if the worse thing they can come up with is that his preacher acted like an ass...well, that says a lot right there.

and if the best thing McCain ever did was get tortured, well, that doesn't say much.

as for Hillary...I know she's done some work, but she's elitist by all accounts and not connected to teh base of america and frankly would be business as usual.

I think obama would be extremely different on many fronts.
But, it is also likely that someone will likely try to assassinate him.

So far, we for the most part like what we are hearing from Obama up here and the rest of them are status quo or total fuckin nut jobs.

[nianfong]

cool man. I respect the true conservatives. like the original george bush. funny that I'd say that now when I used to think he was an asshole. I still respected him though. I have negative respect for the shrub we have in the office now.

but I don't think they're all liberal outposts. I think that's just what karl rove wants you to think.
it's funny because somehow now, speaking from any sort of educated background automatically makes you a "liberal". I have no idea how speaking of social, political, and ecological ideals is suddenly only a liberal concern.

more on topic, there is no hypocrisy with quitting a church. they're spouting things he does not agree with and does nto want to be associated with. so he quits. how does that make him a hypocrite? He'd be a hypocrite only if he stayed in the church.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

I don't have a problem with conservatism at all. It's a necessary aspect to a functional democracy.
I don't have a problem with liberalism either. It's the other side of it.
Both ideologies have a center as well as the wings near and far. They are both required because if one takes over on the other, you wind up with some form of totalitarianism which can lead to who knows what? Burma? lol. On the other hand, we can look at places like Nepal who have shattered their monarchy and have entered the world of secular government. Microcosms Politic. The States is this too, but with a much greater effect on things as it is a large consumer market.
Whichever one that can represent America with a keener more intelligent eye towards real solutions towards democracy as opposed tot he favoured way of "spreading " it as of late will likely be the one. I think it is going to become about root value issues and there is a yearning to move away from the old thinking that is apparently doomed to be continuous. Vietnam and Iraq having ridiculous parallels politically speaking.
Anyway. Rock the vote America. woot!