OK, I'll go out on a limb

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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby Walter Joyce on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:52 am

Well the one of my contingencies has been met, Hillary is conceding later today, which also means she won't be challenging the Michigan delegate decision.

So lets see if I'm right come November.
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby MikeC on Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:59 am

steelincotton wrote:
So your point was what exactly? That you wanted someone who would 'reach across the aisle' or someone 'who could get things done'? Tell me, if the Republicans didn't want the McCain-Kennedy bill, or something similar, how would Mr. Obama, or any other Democrap for that matter, fare any better?

Obama bin Laden will not get elected.



Come on man, you're too smart for that kind of bullcrap. Even joking, it keeps us divided, and is the very reason why the republicans have alienated themselves with the American public and their brand name is in the toilet. We are sick and tired of the devisive swiftboating fear and smear tactics like that kinda crap. Mr Barack Obama does not engage in that kind of politics, and is one of the very reasons why he is now the democratic nominee. If republicans are going to keep that kind of divise dividing attacks going, then I say it will be even easier for Barack Obama to win the big seat!


Oh pot, meet kettle. I mean it's ok to call McCain 'McSame' 'McBush' and drag his and pres Bush's name through the mud. But if anyone touches the Democratic cult-hero Obama, then you blow the whistle right?

Get real bud..

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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:13 am

Nah, it'd be about as smart and have as much legitimacy as calling him McHitler. Fortunately, no one has been Mcdumb enough to do it.
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby MikeC on Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:22 am

McPresident
;)
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby steelincotton on Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:44 am

MikeC wrote:
Oh pot, meet kettle. I mean it's ok to call McCain 'McSame' 'McBush' and drag his and pres Bush's name through the mud. But if anyone touches the Democratic cult-hero Obama, then you blow the whistle right?

Get real bud..

Mike


Calling John McCain...... McBush or McSame, doesn't imply that I think he's an extremist muslim anti-american terrorist who attacked the USA on 9/11 does it?

Calling him McBush just means he's very Bush like, and supports all, or most, of Bush's policies. Everyone knows that, and calling Barack Obama .... Obama Bin Laden is clearly an attempt to create more divisive hate mongering. The difference between the two petnames (McBush and Obama Bin Laden) are astronomical in their meanings. You should be ashamed of yourself, to propagate such evil propaganda.

As far as dragging Bush through the mud: Well, he certainly deserves it, and even your own party thinks so. If everything was fair and ethical in Washington, he'd be impeached a long time ago. He's done so much harm to the USA, I can't even believe you would bring him into it. Well, maybe I can; it's right out of the republican smear and fear handbook.
Last edited by steelincotton on Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby MikeC on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:07 am

Calling John McCain...... McBush or McSame, doesn't imply that I think he's an extremist muslim anti-american terrorist who attacked the USA on 9/11 does it?


Your backpedalling now...

Calling him McBush just means he's very Bush like, and supports all, or most, of Bush's policies. Everyone knows that, and calling Barack Obama .... Obama Bin Laden is clearly an attempt to create more divisive hate mongering. The difference between the two petnames (McBush and Obama Bin Laden) are astronomical in their meanings. You should be ashamed of yourself, to propagate such evil propaganda.


Yes, I have you as a shining moral example of how to behave right?
:P

As far as dragging Bush through the mud: Well, he certainly deserves it, and even your own party thinks so. If everything was fair and ethical in Washington, he'd be impeached a long time ago. He's done so much harm to the USA, I can't even believe you would bring him into it. Well, maybe I can; it's right out of the republican smear and fear handbook.


Another liberal hate monger. Let's see, what page is that on...
:-X
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby JessOBrien on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:15 am

Buddy, I guess you are a bit older and you remember a time when "Republican" stood for less government waste, less foreign adventure and more personal responsibility. Those times are long gone. In my lifetime Republican stands for astronomical govt spending on pork barrel, trillions of wasted dollars paid to corporate fat cats, slaughtering our troops in the hellhole of Iraq, and focus on utterly looting the treasury and leaving our nation bankrupt and our economy in shambles.

My grandfather was a Republican and he would be utterly enraged at how the Bu$h presidency in combination with a Repub congress have made a horrifying mess of things. I know there are many who feel like that, and I pray that the legitimate conservatives somehow get back in control of that party, because the next four years are going to be very tough for this country under McCain.

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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:23 am

MikeC wrote:McPresident
;)


Maybe; it wouldn't bother me. At least he, personally, believes in something. What these discussions among his Mclukewarm supporters illustrates is that they don't really believe in him. To me, being the "by default" candidate is like being the "last man on earth." Ok, he'll be chosen --and maybe that's enough-- but it's a backhanded smack in the face kind of compliment, at that. It's like being the ugliest guy at the party, but ok.

Personally, I think it would say a whole lot more if there were threads popping up about how good McCain will be for the country, and the world. And, I'm not talking about lists of accomplishments, either. Of course, I don't want to hijack Walter's thread; but it seems like there is only an anti-Obama campaign.

Ok, as McPresident, would he reverse the Patriot Act? What would he do about the economy? I think he has more integrity that most of the rest of his party's leaders, but would he continue the tradition of lying to the people, even to his own press spokesman? (Read his latest book). Would he be less inclined than Obama to continue the economic policies that his party has supported? Anyway, as far as "redistribution of wealth" is concerned, I'll worry when I have "wealth." That will be when I do not need to "work."

Oh well, it's not hard to look back into the ef archives and find people saying that Obama would never get the Democratic nomination, that he could never beat the Clinton machine, that he could not win a primary in a majority white state. All those predictions have been wrong thus far. There's no reason to believe that further predictions by the same people will be correct --based simply on their records.

So, point is, no amount of winking will insure a victory for either candidate, whoever they may be at the time. Hillary's right. Anything can happen or not happen.
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby steelincotton on Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:01 pm

MikeC wrote:
Calling John McCain...... McBush or McSame, doesn't imply that I think he's an extremist muslim anti-american terrorist who attacked the USA on 9/11 does it?


Your backpedalling now...

:-X


If you say so, but you know I'm right, but your wingnut ideology won't let you see the truth!

Open you heart and mind to Obama and let the love shine in brother! Give peace a chance and all that. ;D

I'm fired up, and ready to Go!! YES WE CAN BABY, YES WE CAN! ;D
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:54 pm

There are those who simply cannot and will not accept that Obama is the best choice for America at this juncture.

McCain has already stated that he will be more of the same. I don't think America wants this. Some Americans want it. But the democratic majority? I doubt it very much.

Clinton iwll be defeated this evening and it's on to the finish line with Obama FTW.

It will be a sad day for racists fascist right wing nut jobs all round.
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby Walter Joyce on Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:10 pm

Further developments:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_el_pr/clinton

"Clinton says she's open to being Obama's VP"

What can I say....

8-)
Last edited by Walter Joyce on Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby MikeC on Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:37 pm

What a shill...they'll still lose.

Mike
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby Bill on Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:02 pm

re: swiftboating.
I find it amusing that dems are trying to re-define 'swiftboat' as consisting of lies, when the swiftboaters brought the truth about Kerry and his service to us. I can find no lies in their account of Kerry.
If you say they lied about Kerry, what was their lies ?
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:09 pm

Aug 6, 2004 | "Dishonest and dishonorable" is how John McCain described the attack ad now appearing on television in several swing states, courtesy of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Dishonest because the men who appear in the ad make false claims about John Kerry's wartime conduct and decorations. Dishonorable because these men have waited three decades to publicize their slurs, with partisan motives, during a presidential campaign.

With his passionate denunciation of the swift boat commercial and its sponsors, McCain again displayed the dignity and self-respect that once elevated him above other politicians. Calling on President Bush to repudiate the ugly anti-Kerry ad, McCain took a step back from his awkward embrace of the Republican ticket last month. "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt," he told reporters, while acknowledging that he didn't know whether Bush strategists were involved.

The response of the Bush spokesmen was bland but telling. They saw no reason to disavow or endorse the swift boat ads. White House press secretary Scott McClellan said that the president has never questioned Sen. Kerry's military service (as if he is in any position to do so). Although he suggested that all the "unregulated soft money" advertising should cease, he pointedly refused to condemn the swift boat ad. "The Bush-Cheney campaign has never and will never question John Kerry's service during Vietnam," echoed campaign press secretary Steve Schmidt.

When the White House and the Bush-Cheney campaign declined to follow his lead, the Arizona senator could hardly have been surprised. Nobody who understands American politics as well as McCain has any illusions about the game that the Republicans are playing here. It is a strategy that dates back to the racially inflammatory Willie Horton ad aired by an "independent" group in 1988, and that was used against McCain himself in 2000 when another "independent" group aired ads against him during the Republican primaries.

The Republican orientation of the Swift Boat Veterans organization is transparently obvious, despite the inclination of some journalists to pretend otherwise. From stern to bow, they're strictly GOP.

As previously noted in this space, the group was organized last spring with the assistance of Merrie Spaeth, a Republican public relations executive from Houston whose late husband, Tex Lezar, ran for Texas lieutenant governor on George W. Bush's ticket in 1994.

Its guiding spirit is John E. O'Neill, a partner in Lezar's law firm and an early protégé of Nixon-era dirty trickster Charles Colson. (O'Neill's latest contribution to the cause is a book titled "Unfit for Command," selling fast thanks to promotion by the Drudge Report.) Its Web site was put up courtesy of William Franke, a St. Louis businessman with longstanding ties to Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Missouri Republican Party. Its chief financiers, according to the group's last quarterly IRS filing, are Houston builder Bob J. Perry and the Crow family, both major Republican donors from Texas.

Last November, the Dallas Morning News profiled the mysterious Perry. During the past four years, he has given more than $5 million to candidates and causes, nearly all of them Republican and extremely conservative. The article didn't say whether Perry himself ever served in the military. The Crow family, a clan of megadevelopers based in Dallas, are close Bush friends as well as generous backers. Harlan Crow is also a trustee of the George H.W. Bush Presidential Library Foundation.
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Re: OK, I'll go out on a limb

Postby Walter Joyce on Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:21 pm

Bill wrote:re: swiftboating.
I find it amusing that dems are trying to re-define 'swiftboat' as consisting of lies, when the swiftboaters brought the truth about Kerry and his service to us. I can find no lies in their account of Kerry.
If you say they lied about Kerry, what was their lies ?

Here is an article from the Washington post:

Swift Boat Smears

Thursday, August 12, 2004; Page A22

DEMOCRATIC nominee John F. Kerry has made his tour of duty in Vietnam -- a stint in which he earned three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star -- a centerpiece of his presidential campaign. To the extent, then, that there are legitimate questions about Mr. Kerry's behavior -- either in Vietnam or back home as a prominent antiwar activist -- those are fair game. Mr. Kerry's four-plus months in Vietnam made for an unusually short tour. He used his third Purple Heart to go home early, and his wounds were relatively superficial. Some veterans remain understandably bitter about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements; indeed, the candidate himself has said he would rephrase some of his more cutting accusations about U.S. troops committing war crimes.

But a new assault on Mr. Kerry -- in an ad by a group calling itself Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and in a new book -- crosses the line in branding Mr. Kerry a coward and a liar. This smear is contradicted by Mr. Kerry's crew mates, undercut by the previous statements of some of those now making the charges and tainted by the chief source of its funding: Republican activists dedicated to defeating Mr. Kerry in November.

"John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam," says George Elliott, Mr. Kerry's former commanding officer. But it was then-Lt. Cmdr. Elliott who recommended Mr. Kerry for the Silver and Bronze stars, commending him as "calm, professional and highly courageous in the face of enemy fire." In a 1969 evaluation Mr. Elliott had this to say: "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed."

"I know John Kerry is lying about his first Purple Heart because I treated him for that injury," says Dr. Louis Letson. Dr. Letson isn't listed on Mr. Kerry's medical record at the time. That doesn't disprove his claim to have treated Mr. Kerry, who received a superficial shrapnel injury to his arm. But neither does the account of Dr. Letson or others about the incident indicate that Mr. Kerry was lying. Mr. Kerry's wound doesn't seem to have amounted to much, but he didn't claim it did -- nor does that make him ineligible for a Purple Heart.

The most potentially damning accusation in the ad concerns the the best-known episode of Mr. Kerry's service, in which he saved the life of Jim Rassmann after the Special Forces officer was blown off Mr. Kerry's Swift boat by a mine explosion. Three people quoted in the ad, all of whom say they were present that day, March 13, 1969, assert that Mr. Kerry ordered his craft to flee the danger and turned around to rescue Mr. Rassmann only after the shooting stopped. "John Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star . . . I know, I was there, I saw what happened," says Van O'Dell, a retired Navy enlisted man. "His account of what happened and what actually happened are the difference between night and day," says Jack Chenoweth, who commanded a different Swift boat. "When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," says Larry Thurlow, another Swift boat commander.

If accurate, this would demolish a central part of the picture of Mr. Kerry as Vietnam hero. But the weight of the evidence supports Mr. Kerry. Mr. Rassmann, having had no contact with Mr. Kerry for the previous 35 years, came forward during the primaries to tell the story of how Mr. Kerry, braving enemy fire and with an injured arm, pulled him back on board. "John came up to the bow, and I thought he was going to get killed because he was so exposed," Mr. Rassmann recalled. Other surviving crew mates corroborate that account. "I was there," crew mate Del Sandusky told CNN. "I saw the bullets skimming across the water. I saw the firefight gun flashes from the jungle. I know the firefight and the ambush we were in." Another crew mate, James Wasser, told ABC: "What boat were you riding on? Because you weren't there -- we were."

It's also relevant to know who's underwriting this advertising campaign. The biggest single donor so far to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth isn't a Swift boat veteran but one of the leading Republican donors in Texas. Houston builder Bob J. Perry gave the group $100,000, accounting for the bulk of the $158,000 in receipts it has reported. It's fair to ask whether truth is at the top of this group's agenda.
Last edited by Walter Joyce on Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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