Question: Why hasn't McCain chosen His Veep?

[Buddy]

Steve writes "Personally, I don't think that Powell would help. He's not going to win many African American voters just because he's on the ticket --especially against Obama. Yeah, it will give people who wouldn't vote for Obama, but who don't want to be thought of as bigots, the excuse to vote for McCain. But, I think it'd be more likely that they stayed home if they really felt that way."

I disagree. I think it could help him with the Clinton vote.

Here's some odds:
From Ron Faucheux

5:1 odds

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice

Former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge

Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty

15:1 odds

Florida Gov. Charlie Crist

South Dakota Sen. John Thune

Former White House budget director Rob Portman

40:1 odds

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee

Former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson

South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford

Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell

Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour

SEC Chairman Christopher Cox

From Rasmussen Markets (value reflects percentage chance)

Romney: 16.9%

Pawlenty: 16%

Rice: 7.9%

Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison: 5.9%

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani: 5%

Huckabee: 5%

Former Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael Steele: 1.7%

Sen. Lindsey Graham: 1.3%

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich: .8%

Rep. Ron Paul: .6%

Rep. Duncan Hunter: .6%

Former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson: .5%

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush: .4%

Intrade Prediction Markets (value reflects percentage chance)

Romney: 16.3%

Pawlenty: 15.6%

Rice: 8%

Huckabee: 7%

Hutchison: 5.9%

Giuliani: 5%

Steele: 1.5%

Gingrich: .8%

Graham: .7%

Thompson: .4%

Bush: .1%

Paul: .1%

Hunter: .1%

[Steve James]

Well, I think I said that Powell will give some a reason to vote for McCain with a clear conscience, or even a sense of doing something socially significant. That's cool with me. It will just be another case of people trying to fool themselves. I.e., they shouldn't need Powell to prove anything. In fact, the Bushes have put black Americans in high positions for some time, from the Supreme Court to Secretary of State to Chairman of the JCS, and more than once at that. However, there's nothing particularly "black" about any of them, certain not in the stereotypical political or social sense. People say or think that black people will vote for any black candidate, but that's a joke.

As for the Clinton vote, well, if you mean the "woman vote", all I can say is that once they learn that John McCain wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, the additional of another Male candidate as veep won't make them feel better --even if he's black. I don't believe that feminist voters will vote for one man who is "pro life" over a man who is "pro choice" simply out of revenge. It won't surprise me that some will. My only point is that such a deep level of irrationality must be motivated by something deeper than the perception of a snub of Hillary.

If Hillary had won, I don't think that black people would suddenly have converted to McCain. Similarly, I think that if the situations were reversed and black people were to say that Obama wasn't nominated because he was black they would be considered ingrates, un-American, racists who expected special treatment.

This reminded me of the NBA playoffs. When I was growing up, I'd always pray that the Knicks would beat the Celtics and go to the finals. However, if the Celtics won, I'd usually hope that they won. I think we considered it good-sportsmanship or something like that. Even after the finals, we'd give props to the winning side and say "just wait till next year." People seem to be expecting the exact opposite atitude in politics. I agree that it is there, and it's an interesting, if strange, pathology.

Now, Obama will have to convince those Clinton supporters who may have really been offended by the remarks of people associated with him. But, that is ultimately little more than mud-slinging, even if true, and by proxy at that. I doubt that anyone will be able to convince anyone that Obama is ant-American (and I think the Dems will be smart to paint such claims as un-American), nor will anyone believe that Obama is racist. The attempts, however, will bring the questions up, which is a good thing.

[Darthwing Teorist]

The world already loves us Darth.

This much: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080611/w ... t_military

[MikeC]

The world already loves us Darth.

This much: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080611/w ... t_military

Sounded like an accident. These things happen in war unfortunately.

[Darthwing Teorist]

I agree with you Mike, that unfortunate accidents happen in war. I was pointing out Pakistan's reaction.

[MikeC]

I agree with you Mike, that unfortunate accidents happen in war. I was pointing out Pakistan's reaction.

Well they were coming under fire Darth, what would you expect them to do? That area has always been a 'shoot first, ask questions later' zone - the Pakistanis of all people should understand this.

[Buddy]

Americans will believe Obama is un-American if his birth certificate (which he is withholding release of) proves that he indeed is a foreign national. That the Clintons didn't get hold of this makes this idea suspect.

[Steve James]

Well, "not-American" is not the same as "un-American" or "anti-American." Fwiw, an individual cannot withold release of his or her birth certificate, any more than his credit report. The only question is whether the state permits such release to the public. In this case, Hawaii does not. But, as you said, the Clinton's could have found this out much more easily. In fact, his credit reporting company could have found it out, or the FBI. It's just that I, for ex., couldn't ask for a copy of your birth certificate.

Anyway, iinm, the question is about the age of his mother at the time of his birth.

[TaoJoannes]

Well, "not-American" is not the same as "un-American" or "anti-American." Fwiw, an individual cannot withold release of his or her birth certificate, any more than his credit report. The only question is whether the state permits such release to the public. In this case, Hawaii does not. But, as you said, the Clinton's could have found this out much more easily. In fact, his credit reporting company could have found it out, or the FBI. It's just that I, for ex., couldn't ask for a copy of your birth certificate.

Anyway, iinm, the question is about the age of his mother at the time of his birth.

Well, that and the physical location, I guess.

If he was born in Hawaii, he's a natural born citizen, period, end of story, 14th Amendment FTW.

If he was born in Kenya, then I guess the mother's age comes into question, compared to the law at the time, but really, it's a moot point.

As the fair and balanced wingnut on the other thread carefully left out of his cut and paste job of the article he was sourcing...

Rumor one: Obama was born in Kenya. Rather unlikely, as it would require everyone in his family to lie about this in every interview and discussion with those outside the family since young Obama appeared on the scene. However, if it were true, it would probably raise a major question of “does he qualify as a natural-born citizen”?

Which was the set of sentences just before the one he did include: "If Obama were born outside the United States, one could argue that he would not meet the legal definition of natural-born citizen under because U.S. law at the time of his birth required his natural-born parent (his mother) to have resided in the United States for “ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.”

Ann Dunham was 18 when Obama was born – so she wouldn’t have met the requirement of five years after the age of 16."

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Americans will believe Obama is un-American if his birth certificate (which he is withholding release of) proves that he indeed is a foreign national. That the Clintons didn't get hold of this makes this idea suspect.

he gonna hold onto it just long enough for the assholes to make clear that they are total fucking assholes, then he'll whip it out so all the assholes can run around looking for some other angle to be assholes about. lol.

pfft.

I heard george bush was born in south america. he should be immediately thrown from office and everything he's done shiould be rescinded.
I mean, he pretends to be texan and he's about as texan as I am kenyan. lol

[Buddy]

Despite your invective, I think you're wrong about this. This just isn't the way Presidential politics is played. Nobody wants this sort of thing dangling around just to say nyah nyah.
Like I said, I doubt there is this much of an issue here. It's probably an marriage or "real" name thing. And I don't think either of those would harm him that much. But if he is not a "natural born" American citizen, he would unable to be president. That's the law, end of story.

[count]

John McCain
Party: Republican
Current Office: Senator from Arizona

Personal Information
Birth date: August 29, 1936 in the Panama Canal Zone

[Darth Rock&Roll]

McCain is Hispanic? who woulda thunk it?

panama canal zone is definitely not USA.

[steelincotton]

Everytime I see McCain speak, I feel like I'm watching the old TV shows like Ozzie and Harriet, My Three Sons, or Ward Cleaver from the 50's/60's. Everytime he says "my friends" with that goofy fake-pretentious laugh, it just makes my skin crawl! The man is so completely out of touch. I just can't fathom that he is ONLY 6 points behind Obama in the national polls (Wall St. Journal). I believe the gap has got to be at least 20 points ahead in Obama's favor.

Sorry reps, but McBush just creeps me out. I'm simply amazed that some intelligent people think this guy actually believes, or stands for anything at all. Imho, and from his own words, he's a one-trick pony. More death, and more wars, all in the name of "patriotism" or "terrorism," which in the end, are mere sloganesque tools to dupe the American public, so the conglomerate super rich can make more money off the blood of our innocent and foolish children who actually buy into this neo-con propaganda criminality. That's what McCain/McBush stand for! The "maverick" has not said or done a single thing to help the average working man in this country in the last 20 years. He's clearly a phoney business-as-usual politician who will lie, cheat, and say whatever he thinks he has to, depending on who he is speaking to, to get what he wants.

Talk about an empty suit. Take away the fact that he was a "nursed" POW, and what are we left with? A wealthy elitist former playboy with a pension for strippers, escorts, and booze? A cheating adulterer? The Keating Five, where he duped the American tax payers out of 1 BILLION DOLLARS to help out his super rich friends? His audacity to think he should decide what's best for a woman and her unborn child? His understanding of the economy, whereas he himself has stated he doesn't understand it, and needs to learn more about Finance? His "longing" pension to go to war with another country, specifically Iran - he's been saber-rattling this one for the last few months? No folks, if anyone is an empty suit, I'd say it's John McSame/McBush/McCain. Just like his best buddy in Washington George Bush who he voted for 95% of the time since he's been in office.

The man's supposed strength (military, terrorism, etc.) is actually his weakness, and eventually will be his downfall. McCain has had to be corrected, not once, not twice, but three times publically while he's been speaking about the whole invasion/civil war going on in Iraq. The man has no idea who sides with who, what countries side with whom, and where Al Queida fits in this whole picture (actually they have little to do, if anything at all, with terrorism on the whole). I mean seriously, Shiates, Sunni's, Kurds, Al Queida - it's all too much for the old man to keep up with, and it's only going to get worse the older he gets!

The fact is, the more McCain speaks,the worse he looks, so I for one look forward to the Obama/McBush debates with extreme joy. It's going to look and sound like a JFK vs. a Richard Nixon! (by the way, Julie Nixon, Dick's daugher, has endorsed Obama)

[Darth Rock&Roll]

old people vote too. In fact, they vote more than anyone else. What with not having a lot to do and all.