another successful event drowning by the church...

[meeks]

so I'm on hold with Fedex, and they say they'll be closed in Quebec for St. Jean Baptiste day. So I google it, and it turns out it was originally a summer solstice celebration celebrated by pagans (meaning: not of a christian god). And just like moving the celebration of the birth of Christ to the same date as another pagan winter celebration, the church has managed to drown out another event with their own:

While the orgin of the holiday in France was the pagan celebration of the summer soltice; a celebration of light and a symbol of hope. In the reign of the French King Clovis, the annual event was christianized and became a religious celebration of the birth of John the Baptist, who is known as the Precursor of Christ, the light of the world thus the link with the soltice and the bonfires.

http://www.genealogyforum.rootsweb.com/gfaol/resource/Canada/StJean.htm

I love it when church leaders say "christ was born December 25th" - they really need to learn more about their own history.

[DeusTrismegistus]

The bonfires supposedly originated from the babylonian fires of moloch which on the summer solstice were used to sacrifice your first born child to moloch. This is supposed to be where the tradition of leaping over the bonfires started was to symbolize the earlier human sacrifice that we evolved out of.

[Muad'dib]

I thought Moloch was Punic/Carthiginian...

[mixjourneyman]

It should be noted that Clovis was absolutely bat shit insane.
He tried to murder every member of his family so that no one could contest his power. On his death bed he called for a reconciliation with the remaining living members of his family. Only it really was not actually a reconciliation, he just called them so that he could kill them too!

[Plante]

I guess google ain't always up to date. Yes, until the late 1960s, St-Jean-Baptiste was a religious celebration. But with the rise of nationalism in the 1970s in turn to be the day we celebrate Quebec (the nation, as recognized by our dear government last year...). In Quebec City, around 150 000 people gather on the Plaines of Abraham for a concert, huge bonfire and fireworks. It stars around 7Pm and last until 4AM. Most of the people in attendance are drunk as fuck. It is an awesome experience for youngsters and much older people too, quite a funny anthropological feat...

During the 1990s there was a couple of years where it turned into a riot, I was at 2 of them, it was quite something... But today it is a bit quieter, there is stil plenty of drinking and a bit of fighting but less than before. It really is the biggest party in Quebec.

Other cities have their own thing but it is more family oriented or daytime stuff.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

well, it makes absolute sense when you consider that the seat of the church was the seat of the government and education for centuries.
To usurp holidays and revamp them was a way to bring cohesion to an otherwise scattered and xenophobic populace.

By putting everyone under one banner, they (the church and the state) brought about chaos from order.

Yes, there are many failings in the church, but oddly enough, if you follow the connections you will find that without it, many of us would not be typing or reading these words. It was a ways and means of retaining and maintaining and propogating knowledge, shuffling superstitions around in order to make that goal is ok by me.

[meeks]

<sarcastic-wit>and yet so many other countries around the world have written language skills despite an absence of religion based upon a christian belief</sarcastic-wit>

[Darthwing Teorist]

During the 1990s there was a couple of years where it turned into a riot, I was at 2 of them, it was quite something... But today it is a bit quieter, there is stil plenty of drinking and a bit of fighting but less than before. It really is the biggest party in Quebec.

Other cities have their own thing but it is more family oriented or daytime stuff.

There were also a couple of drunk dudes who decided that jumping into the bonfire was a good idea...

[Plante]

Maybe they were cold.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

<sarcastic-wit>and yet so many other countries around the world have written language skills despite an absence of religion based upon a christian belief</sarcastic-wit>

well, perhaps not christianity, but organized religion was definitely a factor there as well.

For instance... Bon was swallowed and melded with buddhism to give what is now Lamaism in Tibet. many oft he old Bon ways are still expressed in these sects of buddhism and it is wuithout a doubt taht organized buddhist temples were also education centers for centuries and upheld the ways of reading, writing, education in general, agriculture, art etc etc. Very parallel to the western churches doing basically the same thing albeit to the beat of a different drum.

Even Islam is practiced in different ways with 2 major divisions of course, ubt all sorts of cultural aditions and again, it was that organized religion that sustained education and culture and in many ways still does.

I think taht perhaps taoism may step outside the model I am showing, but then again, no, it does the same in many ways as well although it is definitely not a large organized religion in the sense that others are as far as institutions of social development.

All, I'm saying is that there was a purpose and there still is. We do not as individuals need to necessarily buy into it, but I think we can appreciate it all for what it is and what it has brought to us all as a whole.

[klonk]

I have been in favor of Quebecois(,) independence for quite some time. And I'm a Yank. Less trouble for the rest of us, I say.

[meeks]

As a Vancouverite (I was born in Vancouver) I'm all in favor of Quebec independence too. The rest of Canada has given them too much for too long.

[Plante]

Why can't we get along??? hahaha. I'm for the big move too. Just don't care much about it.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

?
Canada wouldn't be Canada without Quebec. Quebec is integral to the identity of Canada as a sovereign and independent nation.

They do have a far larger tax base than British Columbia and contribute more under equalization planning over the years than almost every other province save Ontario. Between Ontario and Quebec You will find more than 2/3 of the population of the whole country.

There have been 3 referendums, one of which damaged Quebecs economy as a provincial entity, this led to the 3rd and that was that.

The separation question is moot and is only held out like a little interest item to keep the federal bloc quebecois in power because without that question, that party is moot. People buy into the idea because they are given an enemy to be pissed off at on both sides by media sensationalism or alarmist crap.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

[klonk]

On the lighter side of the issue...

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/154352