Man dies after Taser incident involving Ontario police

[meeks]

it happens yet again... the need to use lower levels of force in lieue of guns makes them easier to overuse.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/080623/canada/toronto_taser_death

it's like saying "you need to use 2x as much butter - because that's the lowfat stuff and doesn't taste as good.."

[klonk]

Somebody died in custody! It's George Bush's fault! No, wait...wrong thread.

Seriously, if either a pistol or a taser will sort out the problem, the cops are better served by the taser because usually the fellow curses considerable, but recovers fully. Usually is not always, but the percentages are better.

How should the coppers have subdued this suspect? Bear in mind that most cops are not martial arts geniuses or anything of the sort. Hit him with a stick? That has substantial dangers too. So, what to do?

[meeks]

nothing like a good dogpile to subdue someone. that's what I normally saw, and while it may have been harder work, the fatalities were next to nil

[MikeC]

Agree with klonk

[juz]

nothing like a good dogpile to subdue someone. that's what I normally saw, and while it may have been harder work, the fatalities were next to nil

no way....
positional asphyxia...happened a couple of times in the UK back in the 90s

hate to say it but I'd rather be tasered than "burked"...

[DeusTrismegistus]

Somebody died in custody! It's George Bush's fault! No, wait...wrong thread.

Seriously, if either a pistol or a taser will sort out the problem, the cops are better served by the taser because usually the fellow curses considerable, but recovers fully. Usually is not always, but the percentages are better.

How should the coppers have subdued this suspect? Bear in mind that most cops are not martial arts geniuses or anything of the sort. Hit him with a stick? That has substantial dangers too. So, what to do?

HTFU

Only pussies need tasers to arrest someone.

[mixjourneyman]

I wonder what the stats are for whether tasers have actually increased the incidence of successful arrests?
I personally think its time to do away with them.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

statistically, police have been shown to be improperly trained in their usage with the fatalities often resulting from multiple applications of the weapon where it is known that one is the limit.

they were brought to market to quickly, implemented to quickly and the training received is a joke.

we need better trained police forces. poor is teh carpenter who blames his tools, what we have is a lot of shitty carpentry at this point.

[Darthwing Teorist]

The problem with Tasers, is the that some policemen do not use them where deadly force was required. They tase every bro that does not listen to them. Instead of being a substitute for firearms, where this can be safely done, it became a replacement for good restraint techniques. THAT's the problem.

[MikeC]

The problem with Tasers, is the that some policemen do not use them where deadly force was required. They tase every bro that does not listen to them. Instead of being a substitute for firearms, where this can be safely done, it became a replacement for good restraint techniques. THAT's the problem.

I dunno. Not saying I disagree with you but have you talked to anyone in Law Enforcement about this? I would think there's specific training on when and when not to use a taser, or mace, or a nightstick, or a gun, etc...

[Darthwing Teorist]

I will talk to my gf's uncle. He's a policeman and pretty cool. Tasers are a good idea if used properly, IMO.

I know that LEOs have a different view on these incidents. Not saying that it is bad or good. They have to make sure that the public is safe, that they are safe and that the department will not be sued. It's pretty complex when you have to make quick decision. While hindsight is always 20/20, I do think that the police should be flexible enough to review the use of this weapon. Often policemen act withing the framework of their rules of engagement but somehow tragedies still happen. It is hard to reduce them entirely, but they can be minimized.

[MikeC]

I would just like to see the number of deaths per taser event per total taser events. I mean, how regularly is this type of thing happening?

[Darthwing Teorist]

I would just like to see the number of deaths per taser event per total taser events. I mean, how regularly is this type of thing happening?

Yeah, that would help with this debate. But even assuming that it is not happening regularly (I have no idea about the frequency) I still think that it is worth to review the procedures in such a way to prevent things like this and to keep the officers safe.

Maybe an incident review with the conclusion used as an input to a regular police procedures reassessment would be a good idea. I think that putting in place a good system with feedback can reduce even further these kind of things.

[meeks]

By 'dogpile' I meant 1 or 2 cops taking the guy down.

The problem with Tasers, is the that some policemen do not use them where deadly force was required. They tase every bro that does not listen to them. Instead of being a substitute for firearms, where this can be safely done, it became a replacement for good restraint techniques. THAT's the problem.

eggzactly. rather than using proper restraining techniques it's a "what? you said 'no' to me? *zzzzaaaappp*". I've seen pepper spray used the exact same way when I was doing security work alongside police. Some guy trying to explain what happened, cop didn't want to hear it...*squiiiirrrrt* right in the face. damn near took out the rest of us with the f***ing overspray too. if they were armed with guns I only, I think they'd have been a little less likely to use the gun and would have found the use of their more traditional techniques they've used to be more effective.

[klonk]

Just to heave another clam into the chowder, it is not a good idea if street cops wrestle, even if it is 2-3 to one. A lot of them do it, but there is a danger component. Why? Uh... Well, the ordinary cop in America (not sure how they do things in Ontario) has a pistol or two, spray, an electrical weapon, an impact weapon (baton) and probably a knife for cutting seat belts or donuts or whatever requires it. That's a lot of bulk to be rolling with, and if the bad guy gets one or the other away from you, you are going to be working hard to earn your pay that day.