Bad Taijiquan

[johnrieber]

OK, this is a serious thread, not simply a piss take, so I'd thank the mods to keep it here, not in Off Topic.

What's serious?

Well, I think it would be helpful for the, er, wiser gents on this board to point out some of the common mistakes made on YouTaiji. (Needless to say: Given the tremendously amount of dogshite Taiji out there - HsingI and Bagua peeps must look on the Taiji world with awe on this point - there will also be plenty of room for fun and frivolity.) It holds the potential, in fact, to become the longest in EF/RSF history. So have at it.

I'll start the ball rolling with these demos from a Chen group in sunny Espana.

Group form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyzzToRl ... re=related
Spear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Z4mag5 ... re=related

Now these guys do some advanced material, but their below-the-belt basics are dodgy.
(1) Knees have no peng...they need to be screwed outward, over the knees, not sinking inward
(2) When they sink/settle at the completion of movements, it is their knees/stances that sink, rather than their torsos into/onto their kwas (I known as this is a mistake I used to make, in my efforts to 'go low' - until someone pointed it out to me and corrected it.)

give andy props--finally someone's come up with a thread that could wind up being longer than 'test no topic'.

that aside, i'm kind of with shooter. the only bad taiji i'm really interested in examining is the bad in my taiji. and that gives me what you'd have to call a pretty full plate and not much spare time, to start with.

[klonk]

Ha! Knew this thread would soar.

More fun and games here. I believe the chap is, indeed, doing Taiji...at least, an unusual variant thereof...in the middle of his demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZHSKzo ... re=related

"Death begins in the big toe"?

[Dmitri]

"Death begins in the big toe"?

Don't know about that one, but the term "bio-magnetic electricity" has caught my attention...

Googled him up, and while going through the list of his accolades ("has trained over 1000 black belts and instructors") noticed a reference to "International Doh Yi Federation"... Further search brought me to one "Grandmaster Jiang Jing Sung Baek", with the most impressive list of achievements/positions held:

* Grandmaster of Donghanpai Daoist Clan
* Grandmaster of Dahanpai Martial Daoist Clan
* Grandmaster of Mugairyu Sword Clan
* Grandmaster of Doh Yi
* Grandmaster of Jiangjing Wu Jia
* President of Jiangjing International Daoist Association
* President of International Doh Yi Federation
* President of International Contact Weapons Sports Federation
* President of US Contact Weapons Sports Federation
* President of Lynnwood School of Kuoshu and Qigong
* Advisor to the USKSF
* Advisor of American Taekwondo Association
* Advisor of International Qigong Healing Association
* Advisor of American Kendo Federation
* Advisor of American Iaido Federation
* Advisor of United Martial Arts Association
* Advisor of US Dao Zen Centers
* Advisor of Jidaoquan Clan
* Advisor of Washington Taichi Club
* Advisor of Homo Sanctus Association


So, my question is, does anyone by any chance know what "Doh Yi" is?

TIA

[qiphlow]

Doh Yi is the name for homer simpson's intent.

[klonk]

I ever saw so many titles in my life.

[Bao]

Andy, I really don't understand why you want to put up some random clips just to point out mistakes. It's like ridicule people you don't know. I think it's a bit tasteless to be frank.

If we want to point out mistakes for each other, we can film our selves. We can then show what is wrong and what is right, and then explain why we think something is wrong and right. If we did like this, it could become a valuable discussion, and also, people who "suck" would benefit from watching these clips. But I think it's better to keep other people out from this kind of discussions. (... unless they do kongjin, that's a toootally different issue. ). We don't want to turn this board into a new Bullshido, or do we?

Best Rgds,
/D

[Andy_S]

Bao:

Why?

Two reasons:
(1) To point out errors, common or otherwise;
(2) To have a laugh.

The first point is, I think totally reasonable on RSF and the major error I noted in the first clip is one I used to make until I was lucky enough to have my teacher point it out. If others can benefit from this, good for them.
The second point reflects, I regret to confess, my taste for piss-taking and the second clip I posted indulges that.

In both cases, I am surprised that people - notably, instructors - are putting teacing or demo material up on YouTube that really is pretty poor. This indicates to me a certain lack of awareness. I have no issue with beginners putting material up and asking for critiques, but instructors? If they put it up, it is fair game for criticism IMHO. If you disagree so be it.

Shooter:

I dont own a digicam and have only been filmed once - by a Korean TV docco - but you will be delighted to hear that my coach is threatening to post clips of my upcoming 4 April demo on YouTube. No doubt some eagle-eyed RSF-er will spot said clips before I do and post them on this very thread so yes, I too will soon be in the crosshairs.

Now, stop salivating.

[Bao]

I have no issue with beginners putting material up and asking for critiques, but instructors? If they put it up, it is fair game for criticism IMHO. If you disagree so be it.

Thanks for yr reply, Andy

Instructors? Most instructors are not better than beginners. There is not much difference from daily form practicing, after 5 years or 20 years. Depth and understanding is not very common in Taijiquan, that's the sad fact. And most of them would not understand criticism anyway.
/D

[Bokonon]

I thought this topic didn't belong in the BTDT thread. The original post was about making constructive criticism. It wasn't about saying 'ha, ha, these guys suck'. His point about sinking the torso into the qua as opposed to bending the knees was a very important one and as he said a very common mistake (also one not easily corrected, and impossible to correct if you don't know its a mistake). In my own school I see people that don't want to hear criticism (or who will only hear it from the teacher and then promptly forget it) and they seem to have problems learning. People need to get over themselves and not take everything so seriously.

Looking forward to the 19 form vid, Andy. I wanna see some really poofy pink PJs though and is there a nice-flowery Chen Style Fan form that you might consider doing instead of 19? That would be awesome for your Youtube debut.

[Dmitri]

In my own school I see people that don't want to hear criticism

You don't see the difference between telling what one thinks is incorrect with someone's movement to someone they know, in person, in a class, and posting online your opinion about something which a complete stranger in some video is doing wrong?
If one wanted to help that person with some constructive criticism, then why not send THEM a note, or at least post a comment on youtube (or wherever they posted that video) so that at least that person could have a chance to read what you're saying about them?

[chimerical tortoise]

Maybe what RSF needs is a 'tabula rasa' project.

Get someone with no prior experience or very little to post, for instance, their 24-form as learned from wherever. Start a thread and post their form every month, get people to comment. How quickly it moves from the main forum or "video links" to BTDT may be some indication on the practical or armchair value of the forums? idk, sounds a bit too much like Pygmalion though.

[Bokonon]

In my own school I see people that don't want to hear criticism

You don't see the difference between telling what one thinks is incorrect with someone's movement to someone they know, in person, in a class, and posting online your opinion about something which a complete stranger in some video is doing wrong?
If one wanted to help that person with some constructive criticism, then why not send THEM a note, or at least post a comment on youtube (or wherever they posted that video) so that at least that person could have a chance to read what you're saying about them?

I just see the vids that are on youtube are put out there for public consumption by the people in them and hence are fair game for discussion amongst whatever groups of people are inclined to discuss it. I don't think there is anything wrong with a conversation where we say "what are common taiji mistakes to watch out for?" and then illustrate our points with videos on youtube that are put out there by performers. It's not anything personal against the people in the videos and it's not about helping the people in the video. It's totally impersonal and about having a discussion constructively (and if a few smart ass comments get tossed in as well than oh well, get used to it, it's called the internet) to help ourselves.

[Dmitri]

Fair enough; that sounds reasonable to me.

[cgtomash]

Ha! Knew this thread would soar.

More fun and games here. I believe the chap is, indeed, doing Taiji...at least, an unusual variant thereof...in the middle of his demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZHSKzo ... re=related

Here is his Yang style tai chi demo.
His youtube id is secretsofthemasters, so who are the "Secret Soft He Masters" anyways?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pat_MxlqpVQ

[Bao]

Here is his Yang style tai chi demo.
His youtube id is secretsofthemasters, so who are the "Secret Soft He Masters" anyways?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pat_MxlqpVQ

http://www.zenwellness.com/
Interesting: a couple of big centers, kind of resort, but I really don't understand what they teach."Qigong", "Martial arts" an "Zen Yoga" is what I can make out of it. First I thought "Hung gar" on their dresses. Appearantly "Master Goehring" is connected to this organization.