Interweb Challenges!

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby gzregorz on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:30 pm

Chris McKinley wrote:Anything beyond friendly sport challenges are asinine and juvenile no matter who is participating. We study this material to protect ourselves or others from real predators, not each other. Purposefully injuring another person for anything other than unavoidable reasons is immoral.


Although I know where you're coming from, in some cases I've seen people criticize people of being fakes and they've never actually met that person. They just read something on the internet somewhere from someone they consider to be an expert. They then adopt that opinion and stamp it as the truth, not realizing that their source actually has ulterior motives.

In these cases I'm not surprised that people are called out over the internet.

Over a hundred years ago if you slandered someone you would be challenged to a duel where only one of you would walk away. I don't think two guys going at it in the ring is really that primitive.

Saying that though, at the same time, it doesn't prove who's style is better. It just proves who was the better fighter that day.
Last edited by gzregorz on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby Chris McKinley on Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:13 pm

Although I know where you're coming from, in some cases I've seen people criticize people of being fakes and they've never actually met that person. They just read something on the internet somewhere from someone they consider to be an expert. They then adopt that opinion and stamp it as the truth, not realizing that their source actually has ulterior motives.


Sorry, still don't buy it.  I don't give a crap if someone calls you a "fake".  It's still not grounds for injuring someone knowingly.  Doesn't even matter if your livelihood depends on it.

In these cases I'm not surprised that people are called out over the internet.


I didn't say it's surprising; I said it's asinine and juvenile.

 I don't think two guys going at it in the ring is really that primitive.


Neither do I. That's why I excepted friendly sport challenges. Even unfriendly sport fights are essentially juvenile.

Violence is sometimes a necessary action.  When it is unnecessary is when it becomes an evil.  IMO, everyone ideally should hold this opinion, but none moreso than those who are capable of great violence.
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby klonk on Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:30 pm

The only time this came up, an old friend intervened. "It true Kronk no good at karate. He only three brick man."

Cue the crickets.
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby affa on Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:39 pm

16, 76, 81, 88, 93
21, 28, 38, 52, 78
7, 40, 56, 73, 87
23, 65, 82, 91, 95
2, 6, 10, 46, 95
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby gzregorz on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:50 pm

Chris,

I didn't say anything about people injuring each other. Standard mma rules should be good enough.

I don't disagree with you my point is if two grown ups decide to throw down why judge it anymore than two guys in a competition, ring or cage?
Last edited by gzregorz on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:30 am

It's pretty impossible to get real wasabi around here. I saw a Japanese documentary on how the real thing is grown only in cold mountain streams of remote Japan. Ya know, my fiance and I were thinking of emigrating to Canada and living in Vancouver. So, where's that place that sells real wasabi?!


Real wasabi is not to hard to find. First of all, probably the most famous wasabi (from Izu Hanto) is only an hour from Tokyo by shinkansen. They also grow very nice wasabi here in North America. I know there are lots of farms in Oregon and also Washington. You can also get fresh wasabi root at any good Japanese market.

Internet challenges? What about Omar and the girl? lol that was epic! And there was footage.

I have never had one, just face to face stuff. BT and Brian was a good one too, even if it never happened.
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby Chris McKinley on Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:40 am

gzregorz,

I didn't say anything about people injuring each other.


Yeah, but I did, and my point still stands. I've already twice now acknowledged that friendly sport challenges were fine. We're in agreement on that. However, as a separate point, I've said that anything beyond that isn't.

I don't disagree with you my point is if two grown ups decide to throw down why judge it anymore than two guys in a competition, ring or cage?


I don't, as I've made very clear. Unless it goes beyond friendly sporting competition. When the goal is to injure the opponent (or worse), it is immoral, whether consensual or not, because that violence is unnecessary. I hold a very clear line between that kind of challenge that is acceptable and the kind that isn't.
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby Andy_S on Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:32 am

SNIP
Internet challenges? What about Omar and the girl? lol that was epic! And there was footage
SNIP

"Girl?" Er....hmmm.

But yes, that was arguably the all-time Interweb kung fu challenge classic!

Kudos to Omar for showing up in good faith and being ready to ruck, but to hell with the bloke he was with for being an ill-mannered knacker who managed to get dumped on his arse by the BJJ bloke, then mouthed off and wanted another go when he had would very, very clearly have been belted senseless had the BJJ guy in question wanted to finish it there and then.

Bailewen:

Did you ever get any comeback from the lovely "Ms" Atrocity?

As noted, I give you kudos for manning up and showing up, but my learning from the incident was:
(1) Anyone accepting a fight challenge from a female is entering the "no-win" zone;
(2) Anyone accepting a fight challenge from a shemale is entering the "no-win and keep your donut firmly against the wall" zone...PARTICULARLY if the shemale in question has a ground game.

I can see the headlines now:
"Kung Fu Master Frottered To Death By Rampant Ladyboy MMA Challenger"

God...
Services available:
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby mixjourneyman on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:26 am

wasn't me Michael.

I posted a couple things he sent to me in email,
not sure any of them indicated a physical challenge.
there is one student of my teacher who caused something like that to happen,
but it wasn't me.
I've never challenged anyone on behalf of anyone on the net.
In real life I did fight and push with a couple guys in what could loosely be described as a challenge (IE: I think your shit is fake.. ok, well lets try something... bam bam bam.... Chinese guy stands up looking pissed off).

You lookin' fer a fight or sumthin'? <---- obviously a joke, although when you decide to use it as a quote against me later, you can slightly edit it so that it will look like I actually challenged you ^_^
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby Michael on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:16 am

Mix, no worries man, but I had to raz you for that on this thread.

And McKinley is right about the non-friendly challenges. Beyond a certain point, it just doesn't make any sense unless you can respect each other enough to make some guidelines to prevent significant injury. On that note, the follow up match to the she-male incident between Anthony of Bullshido and the Taiji/Monkey gong fu person was actually a pretty good, well-organized ring match with no injuries. It was probably due to lots of history that at least one side will never let the past be forgotten, so what was the point in the end? Nada.
Last edited by Michael on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby gzregorz on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:39 am

Whatever happened to the monkey guy who got challenged by the bjj guy from bullshido and lost?

Question being do people lose students when they lose a match?
Last edited by gzregorz on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby mixjourneyman on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:21 am

gzregorz wrote:Whatever happened to the monkey guy who got challenged by the bjj guy from bullshido and lost?

Question being do people lose students when they lose a match?



you crazy,
sun wukong has never lost a fight.
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby mixjourneyman on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:21 am

damn, that colour was a lot pinker than I was going for.... :P :D
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:23 am

It has long been my experience that internet challenges generally amount to nothing. What a surprise! ;)

Machismo threats from anonymous cyber-warriors never pan out and, similarly, meet-up invitations made to such individuals by legitimate, competent practitioners rarely ever materialize. -shrug-
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Re: Interweb Challenges!

Postby meeks on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:47 pm

inner_achievement wrote:
neijia_boxer wrote:The best bagua person will walk the circle more times than the other person. Lets start a Guinness book or worlds record! Dave..John....start walking.



Man. I just started really searching the forums and I dont want to dig up the past, but I have to say.... I LOVE THIS DRAMA BETWEEN YANG GUO TAI"S STUDENTS!!! So good! I just grab some popcorn and a 45 oz diet coke and enjoy.

I only met Yang three or four times but I sort of think everyone should get together and show their forms, walk the circle and then spar. That way those with something other then quotes from a book or their teacher will be evident. As far as who trained the longest bla bla bla.. Just because you go to high school for 15 years doesn't make you the best. Anyways I've watched videos and seen some of Yang's students do their stuff and thus have my own opinions. To all though I guess its about being humble, training hard and living with honor. Just like Tom Cruise in the "Last Samurai", or was that "Far and Away"? Cant quite remember.



actually Jon, it's the drama between John and the rest of the students. We've a bad apple in the group - not a major divide within the group, so please tone down the generalizations. Also the disagreement on this forum was John @ me, John @ heel_no_up (Namin) and john @ <who he thought to be Mike Juszenas> but turned out to be Namin as well. Basically, anyone that offered a polite correction was promptly told to get fucked, and backed up with a cheap insult.

Here's the one I refered to - thinking he was talking smack to Mike when in fact it was yet another student (Namin) who he also started ripping into, once he found out who it really was. So essentially, it was a case of "those guys are all a bunch of assholes" from one guy that came out to learn now and then.

heel_no_up wrote:
I've stayed out of this but..lianhuan (John) the definition in a dictionary and the character itself may not have had the indepth meaning that Yang Sifu intended. That is what he meant by "similar but not same."
How you say the word and the accent is the reason Yang Sifu (Shirfu) used "Ji'er" the common usage is the same as Jin in most martial discussions.
Granted Yang Sifu goes into way more depth than any book/video/teacher I've ever met or even heard of about this subject, mostly because he was at his school for so long and knows so much.
Also, some of the comments on Youshen Lianhuan Zhang aren't correct. That was the name of the school when it reopened, it has meaning for the way in which bagua is taught at that school. But most people latched on to it and used it for discussions about bagua in general. Ironically it's similar to this discussion where a simple thing like "jin" is confused.
A piece of advice...Baguazhang has to be practiced to understand...no discussion however long...no notes however detailed...nothing can replace continuous practice, THEN discussion about experiences that come from the practice...that is what allows true understanding and learning from a master to blossom. In the 8 continuous years I was with Yang Sifu you came maybe a dozen times and when you did Yang Sifu had me show you things...prior to that meeks should you what to do in class. Maybe now that Yang is in China...clarify with the students who learned from Yang Sifu longer than you rather than disagree with people who have a more in depth experience with Yang Sifu, what he thought, and baguazhang in general.



Hi Mike,

With regards to your understanding of the terms, I guess we'll just have to disagree as well. You can read my post. I swear by it as true.

With regards to training with YGT, I suggest you don't be so quick to state your opinions about superior knowledge. I started with YGT a few years before you even showed up on the scene and after a fall out with Dave chose to see YGT on my own schedule - and only a few times with you guys. When I did show up with your group I found that there were always a few people who were full enough of themselves to think they had to explain to me what YGT was talking about - I would always listen because after all maybe they had learned something more correctly than me - unfortunately, with a few exceptions, I never experienced that to be the case. So don't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that just because you told me something that you taught me something. Or that since I wasn't training at the same time as you that I wasn't training at all. It's ridiculous - in fact for a year I was training 3 times a week with YGT and I almost never saw any of you. But I wouldn't be so silly as to say that means you guys weren't training - other people on other hand are that silly I guess.

A piece of advice back to you... it's important for one not to be so presumptuous about other peoples business... until you have at least talked to them first. I don't remember ever talking to you about my training - or about pretty much anything for that matter. Certainly nothing about when I train, about what I trained, about what my thoughts were... nothing. What makes you think you know anything about me at all? You don't and you shouldn't be so quick to suggest that you do.

And by the way since you force me to air dirty laundry on the internet, Meeks never taught me anything as you claim. In fact when he tried once I called his BS and sent him on his way. Which then became the problem of Dave and his buddies talking behind my back. Yang Shrfu said to ignore it so I did - hence the training on different schedules. Were you there when that happened - No! Have you ever talked to me about it -No! But do you have an opinion about it that you are willing to express as fact - I'm sure.

But you are full of opinion and so be it. But it is only opinion and I think you would do yourself a great favor to examine things more deeply and check your facts more clearly before you speak.

You've started a big pissing match without even bothering to check your facts in person - and it wouldn't have been that hard to do if you really cared about the truth either. So now what? Do you want to continue slurring my good name in public without basis in fact? Do you want to see where that will lead?
Last edited by meeks on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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