Muslim tolerance

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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Dmitri on Tue May 31, 2011 5:05 am

yusuf wrote:Doc..you keep posting these things indiscriminately..... how many muslims on this board appear and start attacking other faiths.. i think there may be half a dozen of us on here.. to my recollection i don;t think anyone has ever said 'all jews are liars', 'christians prefer death to life'. ' hindus value death over their own childresns lives'

..and yet we have people sayign that about muslims in every thread ... doesn;t that disgust you.. rather than just pitch in and post random images perhaps you might consider who is saying what, and whether your images should reflect that ...

But you have to consider the statistics here, too. "Half a dozen" is not nearly a good enough sample, whereas out of hundreds of non-Muslims here only a tiny fraction ever says anything negative. So your argument, while having validity, can go both ways... ;)

There's certainly no lack of nice folks (and a good share of bigots) on either side.

Besides, I didn't notice Doc's images addressing Muslims specifically, at all... :-/
Last edited by Dmitri on Tue May 31, 2011 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby yusuf on Tue May 31, 2011 5:15 am

true and i am guilty of it in my last post... but i'm repeatedly told that i should be tolerant of intolerance... .. i have no problem with anyone criticising Islam, hell i do it myself.. but the broad generalisations that tar an entire community are dangerous... and they have to be opposed..

look at what stupid stuff like the protocols of the elders of zion hoax led to .. why should we not stand up to people and lies which seek to engender the same situation against muslims
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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Faris on Tue May 31, 2011 5:26 am

Greetings,

Doc Stier wrote:Image


Tolerance is a political construct having it's roots in the French Revolution. It is, in it's popular usage, a secular ideal. What was it's 'reality' in practice at that time? What is it's reality in practice at this time? What were the purported aims and objectives of this concept? What have been it's real outcomes?

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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Dmitri on Tue May 31, 2011 5:31 am

^^ IMO that's pointless rhetoric. We could safely presume that the above was "meant well", isn't that enough?

But fair enough...
How about this one instead, you gonna figure out a way to criticize this one too? ::)

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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Faris on Tue May 31, 2011 5:46 am

Greetings,

Dmitri wrote:^^ IMO that's pointless rhetoric. We could safely presume that the above was "meant well", isn't that enough?

But fair enough...
How about this one instead, you gonna figure out a way to criticize this one too? ::)

Image


Pointless rhetoric? I think bandying about slogans and pithy sayings, without understanding, context, etc., is the archetype of pointless rhetoric. What is tolerance for secular libertarians is not the same as it is for believers in Revelation.

"Co-existence" is not optional. You either exist, as others do, or you don't! How to co-exist in a way that is acceptable is the crux.

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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Dmitri on Tue May 31, 2011 5:57 am

You are still missing my point. You can argue things for the sake of argument and pristine academic clarity, and miss the idea or feeling behind it. E.g. some philosophically-adept scholar could take this sentence: "You either exist, as others do, or you don't!" and write a couple of books about it (and some have, I've heard), completely ignoring why you wrote it, what you're trying to say with it, the context/the rest of your post, etc.

You keep looking at the finger, not seeing the moon to which it's pointing.

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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby yusuf on Tue May 31, 2011 5:59 am

Dmitri wrote:^^ IMO that's pointless rhetoric. We could safely presume that the above was "meant well", isn't that enough?
]


yes, it should be..i'm not comfortble with i'm saying to doc .. but unlike most of the peopel here this stuff is actually making a direct, daya to day impact on my life..

three weeks ago i came out of a tube station and heard a huge chanting going on.. luckily, i don;t know how or why, i walked in the opposite direction to a safe distance... 30 seconds later a crowd of about 70 people came up the road chanting 'edl, edl, who the fuck is allah, muslim bombers off our streets'..they all went into the tube station... this is in covent garden, central london and at about 2pm on a sunny afternoon.....

a tourist who was standing next to me asked who they were.. when i said nazis he couldn't believe they were allowed to walk around causing trouble like that ... for me, that 30 seconds was the difference between getting home in one piece and getting dragged into something very ugly that would not have been good if it had turned physical at all...

which is what we are seeing.. i never thought it would happen again in my lifetime, but we actually have gangs of morons picking fights with anyone who looks muslim, attacking antifascist meetings, trade union meetings and other similar events... it provokes a reaction in me that i haven't felt for a while, especially when we are told to appease the ideas which fuel these people...

hoping for peace

yusuf
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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Dmitri on Tue May 31, 2011 6:06 am

Yeah that shit has been very strong in Russia (a lot of trash got washed from under the old rugs once the Soviet Union collapsed), and I saw a lot of it in Austria where I lived for 2 years a while ago ('91-'93), although it wasn't "rampant" (Vienna is, or at least was then, one of the safest cities I've ever lived in)...

Hoping for peace too (which is what I think Doc was trying to express with his images...)

It all goes in waves.
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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Doc Stier on Tue May 31, 2011 6:39 am

yusuf wrote:Doc..you keep posting these things indiscriminately.....rather than just pitch in and post random images perhaps you might consider who is saying what, and whether your images should reflect that ...

Yusuf:

I believe that I have done exactly that, my friend. :)

The title of this thread is Muslim Tolerance. As such, I have consciously searched for and selected images that promote a message of tolerance, forgiveness, peace, and brotherly love, which are appropriate to everyone on both sides of this issue, regardless of how they may interpret the meaning of the thread topic.

I neither endorse nor condemn the opinions or religious beliefs of anyone on this forum. God alone will judge us all! :-X

I wonder, however, if perhaps we should be exploring forgiveness on a deeper personal level as an aid to developing tolerance and peace on both sides. Forgiveness begins in the heart of each individual. We can only change the world by first changing ourselves! -shrug-

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Light and Love to All ~

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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Doc Stier on Tue May 31, 2011 6:54 am

“Flexible behavior is necessary for change and, unless you do something different, the present will become permanent.” – Professor Karen Pine

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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:52 am

lol @ coexist....

they can coexist as long as they ignore each other.
There is huge conflict in the belief systems in that image.

Jews don't believe in Christ and neither do muslims so, they don't believe that period and cannot be dealt with in the context of the principle belief of a christian.

Taoists don't give a shit about your personified god and therefore are in conflict with the beliefs of the Abrahamic religions.
Buddhists like to think that Buddha was "just a man" but if you read the Lotus Sutra it is not long before it is revealed to you that Buddha was Christ like and stated outright he was the father of men. This conflicts with the rest again and even within Buddhism itself as the ignorant Buddhists are unaware or willfully ignorant of this fact.

men and women already co-exist, it is meaningless to put that there. Satanists and Christians cannot by their very nature co-exist and a peace sign has dick to do with religion it is a piece of semaphore code that Bertrand Russell used. It is N and D which he meant to mean "Nuclear Disarmament".
I can go on and on....
Ignorant pop culture religious advice...yeah, that won't work lol.

people have to take accountability for themselves and their own actions and take responsibility for same outright.
stop falling back on what you believe and start speaking with what you do.

then and only then will this shit wash away.
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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Dmitri on Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:15 am

Darth Rock&Roll wrote:only then will this shit wash away.

It will never wash away IMO.
I understand your point, but the value of messages like these is that they plant little seeds "peaceful coexistence" in people's brains. It's like marketing for peace... you may not buy it immediately when you see it, but if you see enough of it over long enough time, it may eventually make a difference when you have to make a choice.

You're looking at the finger dude, missing all that "heavenly glory". :P

It's a short slogan that people see and it leaves a "generally good" imprint. It improves the "aura" if you will. And, if nothing else, it reminds people that there are others out there, outside of their church, neighborhood, social circle, etc. My daughter asked me the other day, after seeing it on some car's bumper sticker, what some of those symbols were/what they meant.

I'm sure a bumper sticker with some deep philosophical text on it (in very small print) would be a lot more meaningful and less like "ignorant pop culture" and all that. Except that NOBODY would read it, other than the very few who don't really need it anyway (otherwise they wouldn't be interested in it in the first place.)
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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Darthwing Teorist on Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:30 am

And except those with VERY good eye sight. ;D
И ам тхе террор тхат флапс ин тхе нигхт! И ам тхе црамп тхат руинс ёур форм! И ам... ДАРКWИНГ ДУЦК!
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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Faris on Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:44 am

Greetings,

Dmitri wrote:I understand your point, but the value of messages like these is that they plant little seeds "peaceful coexistence" in people's brains. It's like marketing for peace... you may not buy it immediately when you see it, but if you see enough of it over long enough time, it may eventually make a difference when you have to make a choice.


Perhaps, just perhaps, this is how the whole world-view of secular liberal humanists is formed.

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Re: Muslim tolerance

Postby Dmitri on Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:15 am

I have no idea whatsoever what "secular liberal humanists" are... Another nearly-meaningless label in a futile attempt to lump a group of people into some artificial "category"? :-/

But, that aside, -- if there is anyone outside of the "secular liberal humanists" group whose worldview is not affected in any way whatsoever by things they see and read throughout their lifetime, then IMHO they are extremely closed-minded at best, and/or fanatics at worst.
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