The difference between xing yi and Xin Yi Liu He Quan?

[johnwang]

John:

I guess you were never near the QIng Zhen Si in Taipei during prayers, or at the Qingzhen restaurant on Heping East Road near Roosevelt Road. I remember very clearly seeing women with head coverings 40 years ago.

I always had lunch with my teacher at that Qingzhen restaurant in 中华商場(not there any more) but I don't remember seen women dressed like that in taipei. May be I didn't pay enough attention until after 9/11. My teacher always love to order the cow's tungue and I hated it big time.

[kenneth fish]

It was a major disappointment to find the Qingzhen restaurant was gone when I went back in 2009. Fortunately Old Wang's Beef Noodle on Chaochou Street near Chunghua Road is still in its original shack.

My foster family in Taiwan are surnamed Ma, of Hui/Turkoman extraction. I think I was probably more aware of the Islamic community in Taipei as a result. There were always women with scarves about their heads in the restaurant, as well as men with Hui headwear. It was part of the charm of the place - a real Zhingzhen restaurant (you probably never noticed that some of the help kneeled to pray at mid-day). The ox-tongue was actually quite good - but very different from the Jianguniurou you may have been used to. I preferred the Sour Lamb (Suan Yang Rou) and the jiaozi . The noodle dishes were very good too (but the soup was a bit too fatty at times). A real loss for Taipei now that it is gone.

[I-mon]

Anyway! Not trying to argue with anyone here - the reason I posted that whole squatting-jumping analogy was because I'm curious about DGlenn's suggestion that this way of using the spine can be damaging to the internal organs. I am suggesting that it's a perfectly natural type of movement, although there's certainly more potential for someone to hurt themselves with the sudden sharp movement involved in CMA "fajin".

anyway anyway here's another dude doing some xinyiliuhe, and the exact movement which i was thinking of which most closely resembles the mechanics of the squat-jump he does at 0:03 and 0:15. Yes there's a diagonal cross-body element but I think the resemblance should be reasonably clear.



DGlenn is it this movement, or the next one at 0:18 (head pounds tombstone?) which is the "potentially damaging to the internal organs" mechanic you're talking about?

[hamid]

My lineage of xin yi
Shan Liang
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW49XNSrZ1Q

Li Ru Bo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yRLMbfE ... ideo_title


http://hamid160.skyrock.com/

[D_Glenn]

Anyway! Not trying to argue with anyone here - the reason I posted that whole squatting-jumping analogy was because I'm curious about DGlenn's suggestion that this way of using the spine can be damaging to the internal organs. I am suggesting that it's a perfectly natural type of movement, although there's certainly more potential for someone to hurt themselves with the sudden sharp movement involved in CMA "fajin".

DGlenn is it this movement, or the next one at 0:18 (head pounds tombstone?) which is the "potentially damaging to the internal organs" mechanic you're talking about?

I was wondering where the whole jump squat thing was going.

I wrote "internal problems" which means only problems with the meridians and disrupting the normal flow of qi in the body. Nothing to do with the actual organs or even nothing to do with complications from the actual physical movement. The problem might manifest with some deep cramping pains in the chong meridian around the dantian area. We practice strikes with the 'bolang jin Fa Li' crushing wave issuing force in every strike, non-stop, because it's natural. However when using 'fan lang jin' we also stick to the Xin Yi rule of only 'issuing/emitting force' (Fa Li) in every 3rd strike to avoid internal problems, and note this rule is followed even after one has a developed dantian.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[edit - I should add though that when doing any 'Fa Li' you do need to have the dantian full, solid, and pressed down, so that when you tuck with force the dantian is not jostling the Liver too much, if it gets constantly disturbed you may likely develop a 'shen disorder' where the 'hun' is being stirred up during the daytime rather than just during one's sleep. This is called 'fajin sickness' and there's a needle protocol to fix it, problem is you have to find someone with that sort of knowledge to properly identify and treat it.]

***

For the real world source of 'bo lang jin' and 'fan lang jin' take note that they originally came from using and putting power into the Long Spear where unlike that jump squat there is also side to side twisting (horizontal) combined with the movement of the spine (vertical).


.

[thisisnotreal]

^^ i always appreciate and read your stuff, dude.
thx,
josh

[kenneth fish]

Hamid:

You have made an error in logic - no one is questioning your lineage. However, lineage does not equate to skill on your part. Moreover, just becuase a lineage is a "family" lineage, does not make it better or purer or provide any guarantee of quality of instruction.
vous avez fait une erreur logis. lignage ne correspondent pas à des compétences.

[hamid]

Interview with Master Lü Rui Fang (1908-1999) in a Japanese magazine.


So what holds the attention is that the oldest documents on the Shin - I-Ken (xin yi) (the technical repertoire of Shin - I -Ken (xin yi) have been discovered which Chenjia Gou is place of origin and development of Tai Chi.

Chen of the sixteenth generation of the Chen family, who wrote a book explaining the techniques of image Chen style taichi, had studied the repertoire of technical Shin - I -Ken (xin yi) before writing Then these 33 techniques.

Now if you look at the Chen style tai chi, the movement called Jigang Daoudi (Ingrad hammers) caractérieristique of this style is identical to Absol Kishik ha (opening movement) Shin - I -Ken (xin yi).
Movements that involve the fajin (Hakkei) or explosive strength such as Yang Shou Gong (hide the hand is given a punch), Bao Shan tiu tui (wrap the head and the mountain Pusser), Shan tong bei ( dodge the strength that comes back), ji chui (punch down) are all present in the Shin - I -Ken (xin yi).
The circular movements (Kakei) Shin - I -Ken (xin yi) are directly related to those of Chen and style are present.
The fact that the Chen style originating Chenjia Gou was created by Master Chin Hotei ninth generation of fammile Chen hypthèse is becoming the official story. However they say that Chin would Hotei created this style based on 32 forms presented in the book (Kikoshindo). (première période). (First period).

In addition, China has the time Choko, master the fourteenth generation fammille Chen, Chen style was influenced by the principles of the spear of the expert who was staying at O ​​Sogaku Luo Yan (Rakuyo) which was originally Shanxi..
We also added the "Kakei" (circular motion), which corresponds more to the style of the long boxing (second period).

Finally, we added the violent "fajin) (explosive force) Shin - I -ha (xin yi ba) or Shin - I - Roguko-Ken (xin yi liu he quan) of Shaolin. In this way, taichi could reach its final form as we can see today (third period).



http://hamid160.skyrock.com/

[hamid]

@ kenneth fish

It is essential to meet a practitioner of a style to taste before judging its compétense.

[Doc Stier]

vous avez fait une erreur logis. lignage ne correspondent pas à des compétences.

Ain't that the truth! How many times have we seen this verified through the years? So often in fact that it's mostly a moot point now.

[hamid]

How you get to judge the competence of a practitioner of another school without trying to feel the techniques.

[somatai]

Hamid, I do not think anyone intends to be mean or discouraging, I for one love to see that you love the art and practice, but we must all be honest in our practice.....one can always look to see the liu he, shen fa and development, if these are lacking well, what can you say?

[hamid]

one can always look to see the liu he

The three levels of xin yi
1) The visible power
2) The hidden power.
3) Transform, combine the two.

You can feel without seeing.

[Wanderingdragon]

Anyway! Not trying to argue with anyone here - the reason I posted that whole squatting-jumping analogy was because I'm curious about DGlenn's suggestion that this way of using the spine can be damaging to the internal organs. I am suggesting that it's a perfectly natural type of movement, although there's certainly more potential for someone to hurt themselves with the sudden sharp movement involved in CMA "fajin".

anyway anyway here's another dude doing some xinyiliuhe, and the exact movement which i was thinking of which most closely resembles the mechanics of the squat-jump he does at 0:03 and 0:15. Yes there's a diagonal cross-body element but I think the resemblance should be reasonably clear.



DGlenn is it this movement, or the next one at 0:18 (head pounds tombstone?) which is the "potentially damaging to the internal organs" mechanic you're talking about?

If you just try to imitate the movement of XHLH, you will recognize immediately the difference in breathing machanics from that of Squat jumps.

[somatai]

It would be easier if you showed the visible and then others may believe that the invisible exists? any way good luck in your training