JessOBrien wrote:Hi Carsten, yes there are a few. I had a weekly class in Berkeley for the last 10 years teaching the Ba Gua and Xing Yi of this system. It was fun teaching but I've closed public classes at this point. Isaac Kamins teaches in SF. Jamie Dibden in England and Germany. Frank Allen in NYC. Lee Burkins in Colorado. Olaf Rolving in Germany.
JessOBrien wrote:Hi Trick,
When I talked to Kumar about his I Chuan training, he mentioned Kenichi Sawai in Japan and Han Xing Yuan in Hong Kong. He studied with them during the 1970's primarily, as I recall. His Wu style Tai Chi comes from his teacher in Beijing, Liu, during the 1980's. He always speaks highly of the standing training in I Chuan, and their willingness to test their martial arts in fighting.
xingyijesse wrote:To the guy talking about how Liu's Palm looked a bit different, I may have not explained it right. It was literally the same Palm taught by Di Guoyang in Beijing and it's specifically NOT Cheng style. It is the 7th Palm change from Liang style and I think you brought up a good point the BK doesn't teach it, he teaches really strange Palm changes that aren't similar to any other style. Bagua isn't a huge community and all of the styles show where they came from, look at Gao palms vs Cheng palms. Different lineage but clear similarities are there. It's kinda obvious that he didn't know what he was looking at and mis-identified it, especially considering he never learned that and has never taught it to students. You can't really believe that his lineage has one random palm that's exactly the same as a totally different style but the rest of the palms are completely unique. Right????
JessOBrien wrote:In terms of Ed's comments:
Kumar said that Liu told him the he had bowed to Cheng Youlong in person. He then trained at the South Gate Bagua school for 2-3 years in the 1920's in Beijing. He met with and learned from a lot of different people there, including both Cheng and Yin Fu lineage, as well as the famous Ma Gui, which at the time weren't considered to be different schools. I assume he also met Liu Zhenlin there.
The first 3 palms taught are obviously Cheng Ting Hua style palms as they look generally the same as any other Cheng school. The other palms are unique from what I have seen, but share all the same Bagua elements as any other style.
xingyijesse wrote:Edededed, sorry about that, was in a hurry and didn't remember how to spell your name. Lol But yes, if you look up the vid of Liu from YouTube and find the vid of Di doing the 7th change, it's almost EXACT. The vid of Di Laoshi wearing the white practice clothes on the indoor basketball court with the backdrop is the version that I'm thinking of. That's also not just me saying it, Di's student Byron had never seen the clip before of Liu and when he did, it took 3 seconds for him to say "That's our palm change". It's so close that it really appears that it came from Di's family style, not even a different branch of Liang. To Jess, nice to catch up with you as well but I don't dig the insinuation that we're somehow obsessed that you made. It's not obsessed to point out a untruth, that's kind of an AOC type thing to say. "You criticize because you can't stop thinking about me" instead of "Here's something that's being promoted and it's harmful, so people have the right to criticize". If you want to debate my points, that's fair but I really don't want to engage if you're going to make it personal.
JessOBrien wrote:Q- the Yizong book in question must be this one:
It's in Chinese so I can't read it but from what I understand it's got a few chapters about Kumar that are quite unflattering!
The politics of the old Tang Shou Tao school in 1970's Taiwan is not something I'm at liberty to discuss, but suffice to say, Kumar wasn't especially well liked by the sons of teacher Hong Yi Xiang.
(please note: Google translates Kumar as "Kudu" so I changed that. Who knows how Google comes up with this stuff?)For me, these characters, regardless of the intention to use the power of the underworld, strive for the black snake in the upper reaches, the spy killer in the mountains and his witty old friends, the American soldiers who went to the foreign land to fight the Vietnam War, and the United States who assisted Taiwan’s training intelligence personnel. CIA official Robert Smith, Mr. C, who betrayed the students for the sake of self-interest, and the aggressive Western Kumar... they all share the tragic and lacking in the way they think is the best.
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