Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby JessOBrien on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:39 am

In terms of Bao's statements, there isn't really anyone out there who is less impressive on camera than Kumar. Even less so when demonstrating advanced training. Not only that his abrasive personality really annoys some people. He was raised in 1950's Manhattan and has many of the same less-enlightened mannerisms as others from that era, such as the current white house occupant.

When I first met him, it was back when he was still into martial arts. I got my ass handed to me. So I studied with him and learned his system. Then I tested it by sparring with other martial artists. It works fine. But, as with all things, the results vary. Buyer beware.

I've visited a lot of martial arts teachers. There are quite a few odd characters out there and Kumar is definitely one of them. But all I can say is that his system worked just fine for me.
JessOBrien
Great Old One
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:04 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby JessOBrien on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:46 am

In terms of Ed's comments:
Kumar said that Liu told him the he had bowed to Cheng Youlong in person. He then trained at the South Gate Bagua school for 2-3 years in the 1920's in Beijing. He met with and learned from a lot of different people there, including both Cheng and Yin Fu lineage, as well as the famous Ma Gui, which at the time weren't considered to be different schools. I assume he also met Liu Zhenlin there.
The first 3 palms taught are obviously Cheng Ting Hua style palms as they look generally the same as any other Cheng school. The other palms are unique from what I have seen, but share all the same Bagua elements as any other style.
JessOBrien
Great Old One
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:04 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby JessOBrien on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:56 am

Q- the Yizong book in question must be this one:
Image
It's in Chinese so I can't read it but from what I understand it's got a few chapters about Kumar that are quite unflattering!
The politics of the old Tang Shou Tao school in 1970's Taiwan is not something I'm at liberty to discuss, but suffice to say, Kumar wasn't especially well liked by the sons of teacher Hong Yi Xiang.
JessOBrien
Great Old One
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:04 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby grzegorz on Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:28 pm

JessOBrien wrote:Another BKF thread has come back to life! Seems like even people who dislike him can't stop thinking about him. Lol.


I don't think it's like that brother.

We discuss all kinds of things and some of us would rather stand by our principles than be there to "just train" as you say.

I hold no malice towards no one but as a grown man I do believe it my right and duty to speak up on issues in which I have experience and I hold an opinion. I think the problem with this world is too many people are willing to remain silent when they have said or done something.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6152
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: The laughing stock of the world!

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby JessOBrien on Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:36 pm

Hi Greg, No doubt! Not speaking on you whatsoever. You've been there done that and you have your truth to speak. I'll always be in support of that. Hope you and the family are all good. Regards, Jess O
JessOBrien
Great Old One
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:04 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby grzegorz on Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:47 pm

Thanks Jesse, I appreciate that.

It's also good to see someone who continues to train there speak up.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6152
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: The laughing stock of the world!

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby grzegorz on Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:00 pm

I agree with Jesse that there are a lot of interesting characters in the martial arts world.

Although not directly related and in fact not related at all I am reminded of the youtube video where a youtuber goes to the worse rated places on Yelp in New York City. In this episode he visits a martial arts who many people take issue with (for reasons unknown).

Watch "I Got Beat Up by One of Yelp’s Worst-Rated MMA Trainers" on YouTube

https://youtu.be/MLG1O6MCSKQ

As it turns out the instructor seems to know a thing or two about martial arts and probably would have few problems defending himself.

My experience with BKF has been the same. Many people may say a lot of things about the man but above all I think anyone here would impressed with the skills he does have. They may see things differently from him but it is hard to deny that he has something.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
User avatar
grzegorz
Wuji
 
Posts: 6152
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm
Location: The laughing stock of the world!

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby CarstenM on Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:41 am

JessOBrien wrote:When I first met him, it was back when he was still into martial arts. I got my ass handed to me. So I studied with him and learned his system. Then I tested it by sparring with other martial artists. It works fine. But, as with all things, the results vary. Buyer beware.



Are there still people around that teach Kumar's martial arts system?

Best,

Carsten
CarstenM
Santi
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby JessOBrien on Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:01 am

Hi Carsten, yes there are a few. I had a weekly class in Berkeley for the last 10 years teaching the Ba Gua and Xing Yi of this system. It was fun teaching but I've closed public classes at this point. Isaac Kamins teaches in SF. Jamie Dibden in England and Germany. Frank Allen in NYC. Lee Burkins in Colorado. Olaf Rolving in Germany.
JessOBrien
Great Old One
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:04 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby Bao on Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:58 pm

JessOBrien wrote:there isn't really anyone out there who is less impressive on camera than Kumar. Even less so when demonstrating advanced training.


Would be interesting to hear more about what he can demonstrate in terms of advanced skills.

But all I can say is that his system worked just fine for me.


Well that is all that matters really. What is important is the material, what we do should be all about the art, not about teachers personality traits. If what you do works good for you I am happy for you. :)
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7042
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby Trick on Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:56 pm

missed this tread and only just now caught up on it. does it anywhere say from who BKF studied Yiquan and Wu-taijiquan? as i vaugely remember there have been som of BKF's students visiting Li Bingci in Beijing over the years. from Li Bingci i was told where his teacher was teaching was just next to Wang Xiangzhai's group and Yang Yuting let some of his students learn from that group. but as i understand non of Yang Yutings students where any "authority" about Yiquan
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 2383
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby .Q. on Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:27 am

JessOBrien wrote:Q- the Yizong book in question must be this one:
Image
It's in Chinese so I can't read it but from what I understand it's got a few chapters about Kumar that are quite unflattering!
The politics of the old Tang Shou Tao school in 1970's Taiwan is not something I'm at liberty to discuss, but suffice to say, Kumar wasn't especially well liked by the sons of teacher Hong Yi Xiang.

Thanks. Hope I can find that someday.
.Q.
Wuji
 
Posts: 799
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:51 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby richardman on Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:52 am

So many good books in Chinese. I wish I can find a site that ships to US. It always takes moving heaven and earth to get one of these books!
richardman
Santi
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:34 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby JessOBrien on Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:11 am

Hi Bao,

In terms of advanced training, that's what Kumar would call "Nei Gung", which means various kinds of working with the inner body. This would be skills like controlling the subtle pulsation of the joints, precise movement of the spine, and training to create conscious awareness of internal organs and influencing them. There is also energy work that has next to no physical manifestation.

This kind of training is not usually associated with martial arts, but in this system it's included. Just goes to show the great diversity of the Chinese martial arts world. There's literally something for everyone. For better or worse!
JessOBrien
Great Old One
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:04 am

Re: Bruce Franzis - Hsing I & I Chuan - 11 CD set...

Postby JessOBrien on Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:16 am

Hi Trick,
When I talked to Kumar about his I Chuan training, he mentioned Kenichi Sawai in Japan and Han Xing Yuan in Hong Kong. He studied with them during the 1970's primarily, as I recall. His Wu style Tai Chi comes from his teacher in Beijing, Liu, during the 1980's. He always speaks highly of the standing training in I Chuan, and their willingness to test their martial arts in fighting.
JessOBrien
Great Old One
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:04 am

PreviousNext

Return to Been There Done That

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest