the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

At least (the idea) of Internal discussions ....back on RSF.
Dan

Some of your posts have been removed Tom. Why is this?

Dmitri and Toms posts...both in support of me... have been removed.
Dan

I actually deleted my own... Right after I posted. I do that sometimes, dunno why. I'm trying to keep my post count down, believe it or not. Glad you saw it though.

For others, since it's been brought up, I'll restate in brief -- I said that I almost PMed Dan earlier, thanking him for being the catalyst for the recent influx of generally IMA-related seriousness and activity, (and the existence of The Distillery, even though I still have mixed feelings about that subforum, in its current form). Seriousness despite it being springtime, when RSF usually behaves like an aggressive cat in heat who's been off its medication for a while...

Bodywork wrote:Dmitri and Toms posts...both in support of me... have been removed.
Dan

Its a pity. I was loving the one by the "small" woman who was explaining how you taught her to be tackle proof in football and how she could blast huge guys around at will.

(Paraphrasing here as the original has been removed)

I didn’t read it all, but I expect she tells us how her NFL try out is going and how she is going to be spending her millions more toward the end of the article.

IMO, no matter whether we're coming from a pro, con or neutral perspective, we're really not going to generate any productive discussion if we approach the topic with sarcastic derision, personal dismissiveness, elitism, stinginess, clandestine obfuscation, and even outright general discourtesy that we've seen here and there in regard to the general topic of IP. It would not surprise me if many dismissed the topic altogether in disgust at the juvenile and outright unfriendly demeanor of both advocates and opponents of the concept of IP, some of whom seem unable to have an adult discussion of the topic of the kind that would be appropriate at the local coffee house.

It's understandable that advocates might develop a degree of impatience with the uphill battle for legitimacy of a practice so steeped in unfounded boastful folklore and needless mysticism. It's also understandable that skeptics or even outright deniers might develop impatience with the arguably unfounded arrogance, elitism and dismissiveness surrounding the promotion of this concept. In both cases, while there may be sympathy and even empathy for the frustration, it's important to remember that when engaging in public discourse, your personal frustration and impatience are irrelevant. You are still required to exhibit a modicum of courtesy and respect with and to those whom you intend to persuade. If you are no longer capable of adult-level conversation without the personal nonsense, do us (and your respective position on the subject) a favor and simply refrain from posting.

Thanks for that Chris. It continues to affirm you derisive insults all in the same paragraph of calling for reasoned discourse.
Surprisingly, this time around you left out asshole, paranoid, jerk, mumbo jumbo nonsense, and your negative assessment of my skills....contrary to all personal witness to the contrary.

For my part, I will do what I have always done with you in the past....that is to actually demonstrate a level head and lack of insults in my reply. Maybe some day, you will actually read the shit you write to me, and my replies, and get a wake up call. Lord knows the Moderator's haven't
Dan

Dan,

I'll let the actual chronology of our exchanges stand with regard to the introduction of personal insults with you specifically, though I do not deny nor defend my own involvement in such time-wasting drivel. It's beneath all of us, you and I included, and I have since moved on and returned to civil on-topic posting. That said, neither I nor any other poster involved in the discussion of IP now is coming on here and making blanket insults and dismissals, a trend I'd like to see continue as a stark contrast to prior threads on the main forum. No one else is making unfounded claims of superior skill, nor of the tiring insufficiency of skill of the remaining posters on the board. We are not claiming a clandestine understanding of the nature of internal work, nor are we pushing for an elitist forum for the proclamations of a singular narrow view with other views being explicitly unwelcome. Instead, we are attempting to have a mature and respectful discussion of the issues, some of the early examples of which are related to the discussion of IP. Without the presence of the kind of behavior I outlined above, we are curiously having a fairly respectful topical series of discussions, even among posters who do not agree in lockstep with each other's views. This is exactly the kind of behavior I am glad to see as a refreshing alternative to the kinds of IP discussions that have occurred in the past. I would suggest that the tenor of your post here further illustrates the wisdom of not granting you the free personal blog on RSF's bandwidth that your original suggestion of an invitation-only forum with an 'approved understanding' filter would have almost instantly become.

I would merely second Dmitri's call above for civility and grace in discussions as this new forum has generally exemplified and in continuing further discussions. If you are interested in having the kind of adult conversation we are currently using to discuss these matters, I personally would welcome your participation, regardless of any personal feelings expressed in the past. In fact, I would hope that you would be encouraged to employ a greater generosity and openness about the subject than you have previously displayed, certainly not for my sake, but perhaps for those on the board who are genuinely interested in authentic material related to internal martial arts and who have been convinced of your credibility to speak on such matters. I'm certainly capable of and willing to have a civil discussion with you about the topic, even should we disagree strongly about any aspect of the topic itself. I would hope that you might be similarly able and willing to act in kind, even if not with me, at least with the other members of the forum who might wish to engage you in discussion. Maybe something productive and useful might come of it.

keep it civil guys; take personal issues to PM

Agreed. In fact, I suggest we leave personal issues out of it entirely, whether in PM or in the forums.

Chris McKinley wrote:Agreed. In fact, I suggest we leave personal issues out of it entirely, whether in PM or in the forums.

you always say that....after.....you come in firing away with insults and derogatory comments. It is fairly consistent with your shot across the bow, posts to me. Come in swinging, get...your....shots in, then call for the guy you insulted ...to take the high road. All so transparent. Then the mods include ...me...in with your actions and behaviors.
See ya
Dan

In before the lock!

Good move unlocking and placing in BTDT. Better to talk than not talk.

Ever since I've been on this board, I've seen that several of those who have the most knowledge and experience, and are willing to share, and who do not take the safe road by posting only about that which is obvious and easy to discuss or demonstrate, are hounded by those who show a kind of jealousy in their responses. It appears to me their attacks are a result of insecurity from gaping holes in their training suddenly becoming obvious to them by the explanations of concepts on this board that their teachers could not and/or did not give them because of omissions in their internal training. Several of these people have admitted over the years a lack of sensory perception of qi and still go on to tell those of us that do know, that we can't play music because of their deafness.

It's unfortunate you've invested so much time in the internal arts and still can not appreciate one of its essential pieces, but you might consider staying out of threads where you haven't got the ability to appreciate fully what is being discussed, or at least don't try so hard to break up a scene where others are having a good time just to shout about how deaf you are to the music that's being enjoyed.

Truly, you are like deaf men screaming at musicians that music doesn't exist. It's counter-productive. You've nearly all shown the ability to talk about MA in a very productive and interesting way from other angles, so carry on there, please. Thanks.