The Russians are coming.

[Michael]

Here's another video of documentation. I'm not sure why you want me to Google these for you but here it is.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nkBtoFczp00

No, there is not necessarily a difference between a barrel bomb or a missile from the Russian navy landing in Iran. Words like nazi, terrorist or barrel bomb do not have an emotional response for me it's just a word to describe something so we are all on the same page. But it could be argued that dropping one of these indiscriminately on Sunni neighborhoods is akin to shooting into crowd.

I watched both of these videos and many others before. The bombs being dropped from the helicopters are not barrels, they have flights for directional stability. None of this is good, it's war, the foreign mercenary jihadists are taking over cities and areas surrounding Damascus and shooting mortars onto civilians all the time. What do you think the Syrian army should do about it?

[Michael]

If barrel bombing civilians bombing is fine with you then how about shooting down a Russian jetliner?

Do you think there's any difference between these two?

As far as U.S. foreign policy Mike you're preaching to the choir. But your war mongering sounds the same to me as the war mongering of the RNC the only difference is in the opinion of who is wearing the black hat and who is wearing the white hat.

What war mongering do you mean?

[grzegorz]

I don't support any government attacking their own citizens anywhere at anytime.

We see things differently therefore I don't see any point in debating solutions that aren't going to tried anyway. I would prefer to focus on the reality of what's actually happening.

I am not here to prove what's right or wrong I just don't follow the justification of voilence against innocent Syrians anymore than the justification of voilence against innocent citizens by bad cops. To me it is one in the same the abuse of power by the authorities.

Good times and Happy Halloween, I do enjoy hearing a different point of view.

[Michael]

I don't support any government attacking their own citizens anywhere at anytime.

You've said war is always wrong and now you say that if civilians are hurt by the Syrian army fighting the terrorists that is also unacceptable, the same as police brutality. So according to you police brutality and war are the same.

Since war is wrong and defending your country is wrong if any civilians are hurt, then your solution is to allow ISIS to become the legitimate government of Syria and Iraq, and by inference, they should be allowed to take over all the territory of the earth so then there will be no war. Sounds like a strange solution to me.

[grzegorz]

I don't see barrel bombing civilians the same as fighting IS.

The roots of any conflict that leads to war is abuse of power (much like police brutality).

[grzegorz]

Here is a definition of barrel bomb, by the way. Call it what you wish but that's the terminology I'm going to use.

A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high explosives, with possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals, and then dropped from a helicopter or airplane.

[Michael]

Here is a definition of barrel bomb, by the way. Call it what you wish but that's the terminology I'm going to use.

A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high explosives, with possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals, and then dropped from a helicopter or airplane.

I will call it indiscriminate bombing of civilians to avoid the buzzword make the accusation more clear.

[Michael]

I don't see barrel bombing civilians the same as fighting IS.

If ISIS has an almost unlimited supply of foreign mercenaries being shipped in, as well as abundant resources, and they are taking over cities and shooting mortars indiscriminately from within civilian populations at other civilians, and Syria has a more finite supply of soldiers, but has an air advantage, does this not control the strategy and tactics used by the Syrian army?

The roots of any conflict that leads to war is abuse of power (much like police brutality).

Good point. What do you think are the roots of this war in Syria?

[windwalker]

Here is a definition of barrel bomb, by the way. Call it what you wish but that's the terminology I'm going to use.

A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high explosives, with possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals, and then dropped from a helicopter or airplane.

a little off topic, The US also has bombs called daisy cutters
Had thought they where similar to the "barrel" bombs

The U.S. Air Force dropped several BLU-82s during the campaign to destroy Taliban and al-Qaeda bases in Afghanistan to attack and demoralize personnel and to destroy underground and cave complexes.[4] American forces began using the bomb in November 2001[7] and again a month later during the Battle of Tora Bora.[8] On 15 July 2008, airmen from the Duke Field 711th Special Operations Squadron, 919th Special Operations Wing dropped the last operational BLU-82 at the Utah Test and Training Range.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-82

[grzegorz]

Here is a definition of barrel bomb, by the way. Call it what you wish but that's the terminology I'm going to use.

A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high explosives, with possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals, and then dropped from a helicopter or airplane.

a little off topic, The US also has bombs called daisy cutters
Had thought they where similar to the "barrel" bombs

The U.S. Air Force dropped several BLU-82s during the campaign to destroy Taliban and al-Qaeda bases in Afghanistan to attack and demoralize personnel and to destroy underground and cave complexes.[4] American forces began using the bomb in November 2001[7] and again a month later during the Battle of Tora Bora.[8] On 15 July 2008, airmen from the Duke Field 711th Special Operations Squadron, 919th Special Operations Wing dropped the last operational BLU-82 at the Utah Test and Training Range.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-82

Seems to be, except for the part about dropped by a Russian made chopper.

[grzegorz]

I've been researching the plane crash and I find in interesting that the Russians immediately dismissed IS claims that they took down the plane. It seems difficult to dismiss a claim before an investigation has even begun. On the flipside the Egyptians will also want to deny any responsibilty. I am sure the conspiracy theories will never end it could be years before we actually figure what actually happened or perhaps we will never know. Some believe it was a mechanical failure but that too could have been intentional.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5634ab34e4b00aa54a4e657b

WORLDPOST

Officials Search For Cause Of Russian Plane Crash Over Egypt's Sinai
"The plane split into two, a small part on the tail end that burned and a larger part that crashed into a rock. We have extracted at least 100 bodies and the rest are still inside."

20 hours ago | Updated 3 hours ago
Brian Rohan and Hamza Hendawi Reuters

SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt (AP) — A Russian passenger airliner crashed Saturday in a remote mountainous part of Egypt's Sinai Peninsula 23 minutes after taking off from a popular Red Sea resort, killing all 224 people on board, including 25 children.
The cause of the crash was not known, but two major European airlines announced they would stop flying over the area for safety reasons after a local affiliate of the extremist Islamic State group claimed it "brought down" the aircraft. Russia's transport minister dismissed that claim as not credible.
Almost everyone on board the Airbus-A321-200 operated by the Moscow-based Metrojet airline was Russian; Ukraine said four of its citizens were passengers. Russian officials did not give a specific breakdown of the 217 passengers' ages and genders, but said 25 were children. There were seven crew members.
A civil aviation ministry statement said the plane's wreckage was found in the Hassana area some 70 kilometers (44 miles) south of the city of el-Arish, in the general area of northern Sinai where Egyptian security forces have for years battled local Islamic militants who in recent months claimed allegiance to the Islamic State group.
The ministry said the plane took off from the resort city of Sharm el-Sheikh shortly before 6 a.m. for St. Petersburg in Russia and disappeared from radar screens 23 minutes after takeoff. Egyptian Prime Minister Sherif Ismail toured the crash site and later told a Cairo news conference that 129 bodies had been recovered.

ASSOCIATED PRESS
A Russian airliner carrying 224 passengers crashed into a mountainous area of Egypt's Sinai peninsula on Saturday.
Photos from the site released by his office showed the badly damaged sky blue tail of the aircraft, with the Metrojet logo still visible. In the background, heaps of smoldering debris dotted the barren terrain.
One photo showed a member of the search team holding the flight recorder, or black box, which Ismail said would be scrutinized as investigators try to determine what caused the crash. Russian investigators were expected to arrive in Egypt on Sunday.
Natalya Trukhacheva, identified as the wife of co-pilot Sergei Trukachev, said in an interview with Russian state-controlled NTV that her husband had complained about the plane's condition.
She said a daughter "called him up before he flew out. He complained before the flight that the technical condition of the aircraft left much to be desired."
One Egyptian official, Ayman al-Muqadem of the government's Aviation Incidents Committee, said that before the plane lost contact with air traffic controllers, the pilot had radioed and said the aircraft was experiencing technical problems and that he intended to try and land at the nearest airport.
It was impossible to independently confirm whether technical problems were to blame, and no other Egyptian official repeated the claim on Saturday.
In a statement on its website, Metrojet said the A321-200 aircraft was in good shape and that the pilot was experienced. It identified the captain as Valery Nemov and said he had 12,000 hours of flying experience, including 3,860 in A321s.

OLGA MALTSEVA VIA GETTY IMAGES
A militant group affiliated to Islamic State in Egypt said it had brought down the plane but Russia's Transport Minister said the claim "can't be considered accurate."
Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov said officials from Moscow and Cairo were in touch over the incident. The Egyptian officials, he said, had not confirmed the claim by Islamic State militants who said they "brought down a Russian plane over Sinai state with more than 220 Russian crusaders on board." The militant group did not provide any evidence to back up its claim.
"Based on our contacts with the Egyptian side, the information that the airplane was shot down must not be considered reliable," Sokolov said, according to a report by the Interfax news agency.
An English-language statement issued by the office of Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi spoke of Russian leader Vladimir Putin commending the efforts made by authorities in Egypt "to uncover the circumstances surrounding the incident."
Militants in northern Sinai have not to date shot down commercial airliners or fighter jets. There have been media reports that they have acquired Russian shoulder-fired, anti-aircraft missiles. But these types of missiles can only be effective against low-flying aircraft or helicopters. The Russian airliner was cruising at 31,000 feet when it lost contact with air traffic controllers, according to Egyptian aviation officials.

OLGA MALTSEVA VIA GETTY IMAGES
Russian President Vladimir Putin declared a day of national mourning for Sunday.
In January 2014, Sinai-based militants claimed to have shot down a military helicopter; Egyptian officials at the time acknowledged the helicopter had crashed, but gave no reason.
But two major European airlines — Germany's Lufthansa and Air France — were not taking any chances. Both announced Saturday they would immediately stop flying over Egypt's Sinai Peninsula for safety reasons until the cause of the crash was determined. Their aircraft would take alternate routes to reach destinations in the region.
Spokeswomen for the airlines spoke anonymously in line with their respective companies' regulations.
Egypt's foreign minister, Sameh Shukri, warned "foreign" countries that he did not identify against taking measures that reflect speculations on the cause of the crash. "That will impact the Egyptian economy and lead to damages. These nations must consider this as well as their relations with Egypt," he said.
Friends and relatives of the crash victims were gathering Saturday at a hotel near St. Petersburg's Pulkovo airport. Psychologists were meeting with them in a large conference room off the lobby and police kept journalists away. Some left the room occasionally, looking drawn with tear-stained faces.
Yulia Zaitseva was one of them. She said her friends, newlyweds Elena Rodina and Alexander Krotov, were on the flight. Both were 33. Zaitseva said Rodina, her friend for 20 years, "really wanted to go to Egypt, though I told her, 'Why the hell do you want to go to Egypt?'"

ANADOLU AGENCY VIA GETTY IMAGES
Russia's Investigative Committee said it was checking fuel samples from the aircraft's last refueling stop.
"She was a very good friend who was ready to give everything to other people. To lose such a friend is like having your hand cut off," Zaitseva said, adding that Rodina's parents feel "like their lives are over."
Russian airlines became infamous for poor safety in the early years following the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, which caused severe financial troubles and regulatory disorder. Although accidents have diminished in recent years, crashes persist, many of them blamed on human error.
According to Russian news agencies, the flight was chartered by the St. Petersburg-based Brisco tour company. The plane was made in 1997 and has since 2012 been operated by Metrojet.
Officers from Russia's top investigative body raided the offices of Metrojet and Brisco on Saturday, searching the premises and questioning employees. Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin said agents also took samples of fuel from the airport in the Russian city of Samara where the plane stopped Friday before heading to Sharm el-Sheikh, where it had overnighted.

ANADOLU AGENCY VIA GETTY IMAGES
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry offered U.S. assistance, if needed, a spokesman said.
Roughly three million Russian tourists, or nearly a third of all visitors in 2014, come to Egypt every year, mostly to Red Sea resorts in Sinai or in mainland Egypt.
"It is too premature to detect the impact this will have on tourism. We need to know what happened first," Tourism Ministry spokeswoman Rasha Azazi told The Associated Press.
There was no sign of anything unusual at Sharm el-Sheikh's airport just hours after news of the disaster broke. Hundreds of vacationers, mostly from Europe and the Middle East, were arriving and departing. Flights in the afternoon were leaving at the rate of four to five per hour, with lines for international check-in spilling out the main gates.
Pavel Moroz, a 30-year-old engineer from Moscow, arrived in Sharm el-Sheikh on Saturday afternoon on a Metrojet flight. He plans to stay for a week to take a scuba diving course.
"We heard the news a few hours before leaving and thought for a bit about canceling our trip, but then decided to go anyway and everything was fine," he said as he left the airport.

Metrojet Crash

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[grzegorz]

IS even released a video which YouTube keeps taking down.

Watch "RAW: Footage ISIS Moment Shoot Down Russian Plane Flight 9268 in Egypt" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/DUsVEIybyFw

[Michael]

Here's another video of documentation. I'm not sure why you want me to Google these for you but here it is.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nkBtoFczp00

Here is a definition of barrel bomb, by the way. Call it what you wish but that's the terminology I'm going to use.]/quote]

A barrel bomb is an improvised unguided bomb, sometimes described as a flying IED (improvised explosive device). They are typically made from a large barrel-shaped metal container that has been filled with high explosives, with possibly shrapnel, oil or chemicals, and then dropped from a helicopter or airplane.

In the first video above, some cylindrical objects are seen being pushed out of a helicopter and tumbling downward, however none of the video from the ground shows these tumbling objects out of control because, as the jpeg later shows, a bomb needs directional stability in order for the impact fuse to function properly by predictably striking the ground first. Since these buzzword barrel bombs are supposed to be IED's and unsophisticated I guess altitude fuses would be too high tech and incongruous with hastily made, uncontrollable tumbling cylinders.

So "barrel bombs" are a loaded buzzword meant to imply indiscriminate bombing of civilians, but their description is illogical. They are simply bombs, they do not tumble aimlessly, and as a layperson regarding artillery, I don't think it makes sense for random kinds of shrapnel to be inside a high explosive bomb dropped on buildings as all the videos show. I think it would make more sense for shrapnel bombs to be dropped in open spaces for the shrapnel to fly far and wide.

[grzegorz]

I'm not discussing terminology anymore.

El queso es viejo y mohoso.

[grzegorz]

Now there are claims at the plane broke up in the air.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-plane-bro ... 18046.html