The Russians are coming.

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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:23 am

Scary times. I left a comment on the IS thread.

I was curious Mike, you bought up Wahabis in Saudi can you tell me more?

I've always felt that the Saudis get a free pass from the U.S. on whatever they do, for example Yemen and the treatment of women and guest workers but I don't know much about the Wahabis. I could look it up but I think you may have a unique angle.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Michael on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:44 am

grzegorz wrote:I was curious Mike, you bought up Wahabis in Saudi can you tell me more?

I've always felt that the Saudis get a free pass from the U.S. on whatever they do, for example Yemen and the treatment of women and guest workers but I don't know much about the Wahabis.

I read in these articles that Wahabi is a sect of Islam promoted mostly in Saudi Arabia, whose members and ideology are exported, along with the takfir doctrine of condemning another Muslim as apostate. Apparently this combination of beliefs makes for ideal international jihadists, or religious zealot mercenaries whose core principles are not what most people call Islam, but their core principles are obvious in how ISIS behaves today.

USA foreign policy has taken advantage of this and used them and is still using them because although we are not treaty allies with Saudi Arabia, but we have common interests.

Zbigniew Brzezinski and Robert Gates used the muhjahadeen to fight the USSR in Afghanistan in the 1980's.

This explains everything ;D



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKkRDMil0bw
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Steve James on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:15 am

The Saudis have the oil, a large military, and they are generally supportive of US policies, not to mention that their country is at the center of the Muslim religion. So, a special relationship exists where, as you say, the Saudis get a pass. Their economic resources mean that they are reluctant to rock the economic boat. However, if you look at the ME, there are either religious "democracies" or states run by a specific ethno-religious group with a quasi-dictator who keeps the other groups in line.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:02 pm

Michael wrote:
grzegorz wrote:I was curious Mike, you bought up Wahabis in Saudi can you tell me more?

I've always felt that the Saudis get a free pass from the U.S. on whatever they do, for example Yemen and the treatment of women and guest workers but I don't know much about the Wahabis.

I read in these articles that Wahabi is a sect of Islam promoted mostly in Saudi Arabia, whose members and ideology are exported, along with the takfir doctrine of condemning another Muslim as apostate. Apparently this combination of beliefs makes for ideal international jihadists, or religious zealot mercenaries whose core principles are not what most people call Islam, but their core principles are obvious in how ISIS behaves today.

USA foreign policy has taken advantage of this and used them and is still using them because although we are not treaty allies with Saudi Arabia, but we have common interests.

Zbigniew Brzezinski and Robert Gates used the muhjahadeen to fight the USSR in Afghanistan in the 1980's.

This explains everything ;D



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKkRDMil0bw


Fair enough but keep in mind that the Soviets killed more Afghans that NATO did which is something my Afghan friends always tells people.

In fact on Al Jazeera's Head to Head where they're grilling the former secretary of NATO the interviewer confronts a former Kremlin advisor who up until then seemed to be BFFs.

It is estimated that 850,000 to 1,500,000 Afghan civilians died during the Russian war.

I'll check out the video, thanks.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Dabbler on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:58 pm

This explains everything ;D

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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Michael on Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:53 pm

grzegorz wrote:Fair enough but keep in mind that the Soviets killed more Afghans that NATO did which is something my Afghan friends always tells people.

In fact on Al Jazeera's Head to Head where they're grilling the former secretary of NATO the interviewer confronts a former Kremlin advisor of the news who up until then seemed to be BFFs.

It is estimated that 850,000 to 1,500,000 Afghan civilians died during the Russian war.

I'll check out the video, thanks.

I don't know the answers, but the questions are: Did the mujahideen supported by the USA cause more deaths by instigating and extending the war in Afghanistan? Did the creation of the mujahideen allow extremist Islamic jihadist to contribute to serious problems in the future, such as Chechnya, 9/11, and ISIS? Is the long-term strategy of the USA to keep the Middle East destabilized by the use of jihadist armies that are covertly controlled?

Sleeping With the Devil: How U.S. and Saudi Backing of Al Qaeda Led to 9/11
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:00 pm

I believe you're bringing up the same point on the other thread. But yes, I'm anti-war so whether it is the U.S., the Russians or the Saudis going across the border or supplying rebels with arms I am against it.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Michael on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:22 pm

grzegorz wrote:I believe you're bringing up the same point on the other thread. But yes, I'm anti-war so whether it is the U.S., the Russians or the Saudis going across the border or supplying rebels with arms I am against it.

Won't the USA say that they had to supply the anti-Assad rebels because Iran was helping Assad and Iran was supplying Hezbollah to help south of Damascus? What do you say to that? Should the USA stand by and do nothing while Iran increases its influence?
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:45 pm

I'm not here to debate or blame anyone (been there done that), I don't have an agenda as much as I'm processing what's happening over there. But speaking of which (some) Isrealis aren't comfortable with the Russian-Iranian-Syrian government alliance.

Interesting reading.

http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Security ... kwMzg0Njg=

From their perspective they see the Russians as supporting terrorists.

I have a feeling this whole situation is going to get much worse before it gets better which is why I am following it so closely.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:46 am

Yeah, I'm following it closely as well and when I talk to you and Steve about it, I always end up learning something new, so I just want to talk about it, pose questions, consider some answers and stay with the topic. I think Syria is a better topic to discuss than Ukraine.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:55 am

Yeah, perhaps we should use the Islamic State thread.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:58 am

grzegorz wrote:http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Security-and-Defense-Under-Russian-cover-432211#article=6017ODgxOTNEODM2OUM2NUI1RUI5MkY4NUY2NDkwMzg0Njg=

The preparations will presumably include protocols for dealing with deliberate proxy attacks by the emboldened Iran-led axis in Syria, and accidental run-ins with the Russian Air Force, which, without sufficient caution, could entail grave and even global unintended consequences.


I'm hoping for some kind of USA-Russia agreement. Putin said that he thinks their natural geopolitical interests are the same, so if the USA and Russia agreed to peace in Syria, they could create an acceptable plan for the other prominent players, such as Iran, Turkey, Iraq and Saudi Arabia, and then they could actually enforce the UN Sec. Council resolution to restore the Golan Heights to Syria, while perhaps guaranteeing no threat to Israel that is preferable to Israel destabilizing Syria or creating buffer zones.

Imagine if USA and Russia made a non-treaty commitment to Israel that no attacks would ever come from Syria? Might be preferable to worrying about Iran supporting Hezbollah to do such a thing, or Syria having too many Russian weapons. That kind of cooperation could go a long way and remove what the article Greg posted described as "global unintended consequences."

Should the inability of these small countries to reach agreements be allowed to threaten the rest of the world for another 50 years? UN Security Council could do something only if USA and Russia agree first.
Last edited by Michael on Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:54 pm

Russia warns Assad on vow to retake all of Syria

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-warns-assa ... 19489.html
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby onebir on Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:48 pm

Michael wrote:Imagine if USA and Russia made a non-treaty commitment to Israel that no attacks would ever come from Syria?

Erm, why would (/should?) Israel trust them? Bashar Al Assad eventually ceased to credibly threaten Israel, but his the extent of his son's reliance on Iran probably means regime change in Iran would be a minimum prerequisite for this. But a further complication is the oil/gas find in the Golan Heights, by a company with some really influential Neocon directors.

Michael wrote:Should the inability of these small countries to reach agreements be allowed to threaten the rest of the world for another 50 years?

Is this the main threat to world peace? Looks like much of this thread has been about large countries manipulating smaller countries, ethnic and religious tensions, in their struggle for world hegemony. Should the inability of US, Russia, Germany, & to some extent UK & France to reach agreements be allowed to threaten the rest of the world for another 200 years?
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby wiesiek on Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:07 pm

grzegorz wrote:Yeah, perhaps we should use the Islamic State thread.

:)
close connection, Russians stirring as much as they are able to...
In my opinion Putin and his aim - BIG Russia again, was the 1st rock costing our world twisting again.
We may not like it, but it is looks almost like III WW already. / I didn`t count , but more than before nations are inside conflict/s/, wild guess/
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