The Russians are coming.

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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby chud on Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:51 am

Russian Deputy PM laughs at Obama sanctions: click

MOSCOW – Russia’s deputy prime minister laughed off President Obama’s sanction against him today asking “Comrade @BarackObama” if “some prankster” came up with the list.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Steve James on Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:13 am

:) This is the real story.
Putin Slams West, Calls For End to 'Cold War Rhetoric'
By Albina Kovalyova

MOSCOW - Russian President Vladimir Putin tore into the U.S. and its allies over the Ukraine crisis on Tuesday, criticizing "Western exceptionalism” that sees itself as “always right.”

“We have to stop this Cold War rhetoric and realize that Russia is an independent nation ... you have to respect those interests of Russia,” he told a joint session of parliament in Moscow, to rapturous applause from lawmakers.

"Our Western partners crossed the line,” Putin said, accusing Ukraine and its allies of being "unprofessional."

He made a direct appeal to Americans, who he said were "proud of the fact that they hold freedom above all else" and referred to the principles of the Declaration of Independence, asking why Crimea's right to self-determination should be any different.

He said Russia was "always being cornered" by the international community "because we have an independent position, because we stand firmly on it, because we call things by their real names, and we are not hypocritical."

"In the case of Ukraine, our western partners crossed the line. Their behavior was rude, irresponsible, and unprofessional. They knew very well that millions of Russians live in both Crimea and the Ukraine. Russia found itself in a position that it could not back down from. If you push the spring too hard, it will recoil. You have to always remember that."

Putin also described Ukraine’s capital, Kiev, as "the mother of all Russian cities.”

He compared the annexation of Crimea with the unification of Germany in 1990, which was supported by Russia. “I am sure that Europeans and Germans will understand … Russia's desire to unify the Russian people,” he said.


I am sure that some Americans will agree with him that "Kiev is the mother of all Russian cities." They will certainly approve of his statesmanlike rhetoric and logic, since they are appealing to them. Hey, cheer him on. Anyway, I agree that Germans and Europeans will understand. It's just like the reunification of Germany ;)
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby chud on Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:23 am

Israel's defense chief says U.S. projecting weakness: click

His latest comments...displayed deep disappointment with U.S. President Barack Obama's handling of burning world issues.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:38 pm

I agree with Ron Paul that we are not the world police. Funny how the world wants us the solve everything. In that regard I'm a true conservative. In fact I am a real conservative. Our government was never meant to run the world, our government was set up to form a more perfect union and for the general welfare of the American people.

Europe doesn't want another Yugoslavia, especially since they get a lot of their gas from Russia. The US is respecting that as it should.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:43 pm

It occurs to me that the criticism of the Pres comes in part from the belief that the US could somehow take on the Russians in a battle for Crimea. I believe otherwise, Russians might have a smaller military budget but the men all serve in the military. The average Russian citizen can be called up to fight where as most average Americans probably couldn't even run two miles. Seems the W years should have taught us something.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby chud on Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:13 pm

grzegorz wrote:I agree with Ron Paul that we are not the world police. Funny how the world wants us the solve everything. In that regard I'm a true conservative. In fact I am a real conservative. Our government was never meant to run the world, our government was set up to form a more perfect union and for the general welfare of the American people.



I agree with your Ron Paul anti-intervention sentiment, but Obama is not handling this like Ron Paul.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Steve James on Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:36 pm

Yep, O's not handling it like Ron Paul.

Former Rep. Ron Paul says that America’s reaction to Crimea’s vote to secede from Ukraine should be, “So what?”

“Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?” the Texas Republican and libertarian icon wrote in a USA Today op-ed Monday.

The comments show a contrast with the former presidential candidate and his son, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), who is considered a potential 2016 Republican contender.

Over the weekend, Crimeans voted to secede from Ukraine and join Russia, which the Russian government has moved to approve. American politicians have called the vote a sham, and the administration has said it does not recognize the results of the vote, placing sanctions on some Russian officials in response.

Ron Paul said at least three other regions — Catalonia, Scotland and Venice — are similarly seeking to leave their countries, and the U.S. and Europe should allow events to proceed uninterrupted there as well as Crimea, saying “self-determination is a centerpiece of international law.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/r ... z2wM79ngkx


At least he's got an honest opinion. I wonder what they'd say if Putin did this and R. Paul were president.

Otoh, Obama's last two opponents have their own ideas.

McCain
The Crimean referendum on joining Russia is a “done deal,” and the U.S. should focus on pressuring Russian President Vladimir Putin and providing military assistance to Ukraine, Sen. John McCain said Sunday.

Russia has moved to seizing Crimea, a largely Russian-speaking peninsula home to its Black Sea naval fleet, arguing it had to protect its people after the ouster of Ukraine’s president last month ushered in a pro-European government. The incursion has been assailed internationally as an invasion of a sovereign nation and the referendum as an illegal vote. Western governments, including the U.S., have threatened the Kremlin with sanctions if it agrees to annex Crimea after the results are tabulated.

Mr. McCain, after returning from a visit to Ukraine, said on CNN’s “State of the Union” that the U.S. needs a “fundamental reassessment of our relationship with Vladimir Putin.”

The Arizona Republican said economic sanctions against Russia are important, as well as “military assistance to Ukrainians at least so they can defend themselves.” Military assistance should take the form of humanitarian supplies for Kiev and other forms of aid, but not American boots on the ground, he said.

“We need to give long-term military assistance … because god knows what Vladimir Putin will do next,” Mr. McCain said.

For now, the Obama administration has agreed to send only military rations to Ukraine, although Kiev’s interim government has requested military aid including arms, ammunition and intelligence support, according to senior U.S. officials.

Mr. McCain also said economic sanctions are a “very important step,” describing energy-rich Russia as vulnerable because it is a “gas station masquerading as a country.”


And, then there's 'ol Mitt.
Mitt Romney is blaming President Barack Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for the situation in Ukraine, as well as other foreign policy debacles, citing a “failure” in their leadership.

The former Republican presidential nominee wrote an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal saying that the fact that there are “no good options” for the U.S. everywhere “from Crimea to North Korea, from Syria to Egypt, and from Iraq to Afghanistan” is due to negligence on Obama’s part — leaving us only to “wring our hands.”

A large part of the answer is our leader’s terrible timing. In virtually every foreign-affairs crisis we have faced these past five years, there was a point when America had good choices and good options,” Romney wrote on Monday night. “There was a juncture when America had the potential to influence events. But we failed to act at the propitious point; that moment having passed, we were left without acceptable options.”

Romney called out Obama and Clinton, a front-runner for the 2016 presidential race, for “failure” and urged the president and current Secretary of State John Kerry to take heed.

“President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton traveled the world in pursuit of their promise to reset relations and to build friendships across the globe,” Romney said. “Their failure has been painfully evident: It is hard to name even a single country that has more respect and admiration for America today than when President Obama took office, and now Russia is in Ukraine. Part of their failure, I submit, is due to their failure to act when action was possible, and needed. A chastened president and Secretary of State Kerry, a year into his job, can yet succeed, and for the country’s sake, must succeed. Timing is of the essence.”

“When protests in Ukraine grew and violence ensued, it was surely evident to people in the intelligence community — and to the White House — that President Putin might try to take advantage of the situation to capture Crimea, or more,” he wrote. “That was the time to talk with our global allies about punishments and sanctions, to secure their solidarity, and to communicate these to the Russian president.”“

Romney famously brought up Russia during the 2012 election in what many called a gaffe at the time, saying the nation was a major political foe of the U.S. When relations with Putin began to unravel earlier this year over Ukraine, after months of tension due to Syria and National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden, conservative commentators began to cry “I told you so” and point to Romney’s prescience.

But current and former Obama administration officials pushed back on Romney’s criticism Tuesday, calling it empty of solutions.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/m ... z2wM9Ioorb


So, it ends up that there are either vapid, weepy critiques that "it's the other guy's fault" --with no solutions, or it's "send 'em weapons," or it's "don't do a f'in thing", any way it goes the president is doing it wrong. Again, at least McCain has an honest solution. It's the same for any other similar situation, but ok. Afa Romney, he's showing good shepherding skillz.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby wiesiek on Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:59 am

hey, whats`up in London?,
I heard rumors that our kamratencitizens in the City has the problems with Englishmans,
they don`t like to watch our football teams!
What? Paris doesn`t like our fashion ?, Berlin things I`m nut, and Warszawa is digging under my arse!

OUR CITIZENS ARE CRYING FOR HELP !
we don`t leave them alone ;D ::) :o :-*

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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Michael on Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:49 am

You'd better annex the City!
"but we’re going to hunt down that last point-one percent and say: ‘you’ve gotta get inside, you gotta cut it out, and you gotta distance.’” —Mayor Garcetti
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby wiesiek on Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:05 am

one thing at the time
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:01 am

I should say I agree with Ron Paul but not for Ron Paul's reasons. Sure during the Articles of Confederation, which is what the Libertarians would like to return to, you could ignore an international crisis like the one happening in Ukraine but not today where the world is a much smaller place (in fact that is the point of the memes blaming Obama, which is ironic that they are posted by Ron Paul people since RP is a complete isolationist). My reason for the US staying out is because one misstep, one signal of false confidence that the US will back Ukraine so they do decide to fight the Russians could easily turn into another Yugoslavia or even worse. All for what? Crimea? Fighting a world war for Crimea would be like fighting a world war for Gary, Indiana. There is just no reason to fight for it, this is a leftover from the Cold War and it needs to play itself out. Sending false signals to other countries almost led to a war between China and Taiwan and may have even led to the conflict between Russia and Georgia. There's no point is going through all that again and the US has no chance of victory against the Russians in their own front yard.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby wiesiek on Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:38 am

then,
we are in world >pat< situation,
unless
Chelsea football team tear off their "Gazprom" T -shirts, and drops them into the pit.
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Steve James on Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:29 am

Well, Paul's isolation is ideological. Iow, it would not really matter where or what the region in question might be, he'd say that we shouldn't intervene. One might agree with him when it comes to Vietnam, but maybe not agree when it comes to WW2 or Israel. His position is based purely on American interests, not the morality of action. So, someone might reasonably argue that America has no interest to defend in Crimea, whereas Russia and the EU, otoh, clearly do.

Putin is obliged to protect Russian interests in the region, and The question is his method of doing so. Europe also needs/uses resources from the region, so there are conflicting interests. Do we have to choose sides? Or, should we "stay out of European affairs" (or ME affairs). In some ways, it becomes a matter of obligations to "friends." However, then the question is what do "we" do?

Russia can take over the region militarily, and there's nothing we can do about it. The "Cold War" wasn't about that region, however. It was about the fear of soviet invasions of western Europe. The response then was the creation of NATO, and the fear of an American thermonuclear response launched to a European invasion.

Anyway, few think that Crimea will return to Ukraine. The only question is where Putin will stop. However, now that lines are being drawn, there's a growing isolation of Russia. I'm not sure whether the resolution of this will be based more on economics than on military power.

Unless there is a (further) Russian invasion of Ukraine, it's unlikely that that there will be any military action. If the Ukraine is invaded --to protect its Russian population or in response to Ukrainian attempts to retake Crimea-- then there might be what would have been a civil war a month ago. Then we're back to the "suppose WW1 was a bar fight." I.e., if your friend stands up to defend his friend, do you get involved?
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby Michael on Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:05 am

"but we’re going to hunt down that last point-one percent and say: ‘you’ve gotta get inside, you gotta cut it out, and you gotta distance.’” —Mayor Garcetti
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Re: The Russians are coming.

Postby grzegorz on Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:18 am

Would you rather see boots on the ground Michael?
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