Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

Postby RobP2 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:58 am

I have an explanation for the LKJ Ive seen over the past 30 years - from a number of teachers and sources, including some who's youtube clips have been presented here as evidence for. I'd just like to add this is all from direct first hand experience - from my own teachers at the time, to attending workshops, to having guys come into our class to demonstrate their "powers"

My explanation is that it relies totally on a steady process of grooming students using a variety of techniques (most often making them feel "special" in some way) linked in with a teacher assuming an important role in the student's life. The intensity of that ranges from paying lots of money for everything Sifu organises through to outright cult- like worship.

At no time has any LKJ, from numerous sources, ever worked on myself or any of students or colleagues present. In fact in some cases, again with people often put forward as "masters of the art", it has failed spectacularly.

I have had very interesting experiences with some teachers, such as Vincent Chu - who incidentally voiced the opinion that while subtle "energy" work can be useful between teacher and student, the thought that it can be used in any kind of self defence situation or to affect people who have not been subject to the "process" is misguided at best.

I do not discount the effects of psychological work, hypnosis, flinch work, subtle physical and psychological "body mechanics" and similar. However the notion of LKJ as it is most usually put forward has in my experience been discredited. In short I do not believe that a person can emit some force from their body that physically effects another in such a major way as making them fall, stop their movement, etc. However I always like to maintain an open mind and have a standing invitation open to anyone who is willing to demonstrate such powers
Last edited by RobP2 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

Postby Ron Panunto on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:13 am

gzregorz wrote:The problem as I see is that if this stuff truly worked well in dangerous situations against highly skilled opponents everyone would be doing it.


Exactly. Mankind has been around for about 100,000 years now, and if it worked it would have been part of martial training for dozens of centuries. It just amazes me that in the 21st century that people can still believe in this nonsense.
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Re: Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

Postby windwalker on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:35 am

I do not discount the effects of psychological work, hypnosis, flinch work, subtle physical and psychological "body mechanics" and similar. However the notion of LKJ as it is most usually put forward has in my experience been discredited. In short I do not believe that a person can emit some force from their body that physically effects another in such a major way as making them fall, stop their movement, etc. However I always like to maintain an open mind and have a standing invitation open to anyone who is willing to demonstrate such powers


I'll ask here, since you have not answered in other threads.
in systama, I note many videos some even linking what some Asian practices do to systema practices and showing the same effects. are you now saying that these clips, are different, are not part of the practice, dont show what they appear to be,
ect ?

its pointless posting any of them, so I wont.
to date you have not commented on any of them except to say something like "its different" or what ever :-\

Do you and others truly believe that the students themselves from different teachers all are allowing themselves to be fooled, or in need of "what ever" is this your contention?

as for fails can you show or post a clip of systema at full speed in action being used successfully?
I notice that most things shown are done slow, usually with single point attacks.
there are clips of systema also failing, can you show some mma clip or what ever showing other wise?

In your own work, it looks like many of the underlying principles by which lkj IMO does work is being trained. I have often commented on the similarities. most teachers as I've met will tend to down play the way its sometimes demoed from actually usage to strangers or ma tourist..

sure there some marketing things, this is true in any endeavor
I would expect you as well as others with many yrs in MA to be able to look past the marketing and
see whats being done, as with Aikido, what some did in the past, and some do today on film
is questioned by those not in the practice.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

Postby windwalker on Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:44 am

However the notion of LKJ as it is most usually put forward has in my experience been discredited.


The best controlled studies show a clear pattern, with acupuncture the outcome does not depend on needle location or even needle insertion. Since these variables are those that define acupuncture, the only sensible conclusion is that acupuncture does not work.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/acu ... esnt-work/

in effect none of it works?
qi is not real?
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Re: Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

Postby RobP2 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:23 am

windwalker wrote:I'll ask here, since you have not answered in other threads.....


When you post up some of your own work rather than other people's I'll take more notice of your questions
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Re: Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

Postby Mr_Wood on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:47 am

in his earlier yrs, many people used to come to him for tui na, so many I am told that they used to sleep outside waiting for him to help them.


Yes. It has health benefit as well. I would said that it can rejuvenate your bone/bone marrow, similar to bone marrow washing qigong. It also help one to 'learn' or acclimatize to incoming energy or strikes. It can unblock any blockages one might have in the body.


Thanks. I have heard of unusual abilities being gained via practices like xi sui and other nei gong /dan but again never had the pleasure to witness first hand or been enthusiastic enough to commit the time to such practices. Kind of reminds me of the old shaolin practice of candle punching and then doing this from further and further away etc building this up over years .....a lot of hard work, a lot of time, could be used more constructively imo, each to their own though :) Cheers.
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Re: Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

Postby windwalker on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:33 am

RobP2 wrote:
windwalker wrote:I'll ask here, since you have not answered in other threads.....


When you post up some of your own work rather than other people's I'll take more notice of your questions


others have not posted theirs :-\
I've made it a point to try to keep things neutral
no interest nor need to post anything, its not my work that is in question

just as its not your work thats in questioned rather its an idea/concept,
for those who practice or experienced it they can, as some have,
and I have done give first hand accounts that might make what is seen a little more understandable.

which is why, I have stated that I will neither prove nor disprove
only share what my experience has been

the point being that what is portrayed in clips for systema, and other similar arts is often
misunderstood by those not in the practice.

the underlying principles by which most Asian arts are said work are IMO pretty consistent
in keeping with their over all theme. some question the verbiage used like "qi" preferring
a more western "scientific" one over what some may call metaphysical or supranational
not understanding that "science" has yet to prove what is called "qi"

if your not willing to address a simple question, in the interest of a discussion
its ok,,,,,I can understand this.

peace out

d
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Re: Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

Postby RobP2 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:08 am

windwalker wrote:others have not posted theirs :-\
I've made it a point to try to keep things neutral
no interest nor need to post anything, its not my work that is in question



Yep, text-book response as expected, pretty much confirms what I thought
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Re: Linkongjin Explained in a Way That Makes Sense..

Postby windwalker on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:30 am

and yours is not?

get real 8-)
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