Bob Nadeau Aikido

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:57 pm

I thought I made some decent points about neo-aikido...oh hum
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby Zonker on Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:45 pm

Chris Li wrote:It seems to me that most Aikido people today, either openly or privately, actually do consider Morihei Ueshiba to have been a crackpot, and consider what he said to be mostly unintelligible garbage.


I think this is because Ueshiba Morihei was from a different time and no one who started aikido after the 1950's had a point of reference from which to understand what it was he was talking about. I found the posts on your dojo's blog about "Standing on the bridge between heaven & earth" to be very interesting and offered a new perspective, to me, as to how to try and understand what Ueshiba Morihei was talking about.

Now, Nadeau sensei, he's just plain wacky. The man spoke no Japanese when he was training in Japan with Ueshiba Morihei, but considers Ueshiba to be his "spiritual mentor" based upon their long and frequent discussions on philosophy. ::)
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby WVMark on Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:07 pm

Zonker wrote:
Chris Li wrote:It seems to me that most Aikido people today, either openly or privately, actually do consider Morihei Ueshiba to have been a crackpot, and consider what he said to be mostly unintelligible garbage.


I think this is because Ueshiba Morihei was from a different time and no one who started aikido after the 1950's had a point of reference from which to understand what it was he was talking about. I found the posts on your dojo's blog about "Standing on the bridge between heaven & earth" to be very interesting and offered a new perspective, to me, as to how to try and understand what Ueshiba Morihei was talking about.

Now, Nadeau sensei, he's just plain wacky. The man spoke no Japanese when he was training in Japan with Ueshiba Morihei, but considers Ueshiba to be his "spiritual mentor" based upon their long and frequent discussions on philosophy. ::)


Actually, you can find interviews of the pre-war students who said they didn't understand what Ueshiba was talking about. That wasn't just from the 1950s onward. The difference being that Ueshiba *could* and *did* teach aiki in clear concepts. The real question is ... just where, to whom, and how much did he teach?

Mark
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby Zonker on Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:29 pm

I agree with you, Mark, many of the pre-war students also couldn't understand that Ueshiba was talking about. My guess is that some of the older students, educated in Japanese and Chinese classics, may have been in a better position to link and piece together and figure out how the various mythologies that Ueshiba was lecturing about fit in with what he was doing on the mat. It's just a guess/hunch I have. Hikitsuchi sensei seemed to have a grasp of what Ueshiba was lecturing about. By the 1950's, I don't think too many of the uchideshi had that type of classic education and couldn't be bothered to figure it out.

I also agree that the pre-war deshi appear to have a different ability when compared to the post-war, Iwama period aikidoka. Hikitsuchi, Sunadamori and Shioda senseis being three examples.
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:46 pm

Dmitri wrote:
wiesiek wrote:and adm. can trash such vid., if you`re aski`n me.

I would also probably issue emptycloud a warning for starting pointless BS threads that he knows will stir shit. AKA "trolling".


cop lover
emptycloud

 

Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:20 am

Chris Li wrote:
WVMark wrote:Ueshiba was far from a crackpot.*** Had he been so, Admirals Takeshita or Asano wouldn't have studied under him. Neither would any of the Black Dragon society members. Neither would have sumo champion Tenryu.


In modern terms it would be like walking into a dojo today whose board of directors included George Bush and Barack Obama, and whose students included people like Colin Powell, Henry Kissenger and Muhammed Ali.

It seems to me that most Aikido people today, either openly or privately, actually do consider Morihei Ueshiba to have been a crackpot, and consider what he said to be mostly unintelligible garbage. Of course, most of those folks bow to his picture in reverence every time they train, are religious about addressing him with honorifics, and regularly quote bits of his writings out of context. In my experience most of them have a hard time seeing the disconnect.

Best,

Chris


Fortunately I have never bowed before any shrines or photographs. I was refused participation in a seminar once because I refused to bow towards a photograph. Talk about crazy, put me off training in the art until I found my present comrades 18yrs ago. Not a snap shot or shrine for miles.

We have even forgotten the name of techniques, "hello-roto-moto" I think one used to be called.

What is needed is a manifesto of Neo-Aikido.

We need to sift through the possible autism of Ueshiba, and to respect the context of practice within the modern world.

I use the term crackpot in an affectionate way. A man who learns his art from the voices of Gods is a crackpot. A loverly crackpot. My kind of crackpot.

It is clear that Ueshiba was wrestling with mental demons his whole life, in modern terms he would of been diagnosed and perhaps sought medical help.

Lets not inherit his fantasies. We live in an era of unprecedented brain/body science this is the foundation upon which Neo-Aikido builds it laboratory.

We honour the past, but are rooted in the present and its relevant frustrations.

Patience, perseverance and perspiration, we all walk the same path.

If Ueshiba were alive today how would he of responded to the illuminations of modern mind/body research.. This is the path that neo or modern aikido embarks upon.


Rich
Last edited by emptycloud on Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:25 am, edited 5 times in total.
emptycloud

 

Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby wiesiek on Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:54 am

ps
last word,
on the flay to the pit:
@Bao-
I`m not evaluating fellow Bobs / ;) / Aikido, or his theoretical knowledge about "how it should looks like "
in my >blah< post,
it is simply what i`m thinking about MA teaching value of such vid., that`s all, Others may find it rewording...
Joyful Fruits of the Live
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby WVMark on Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:50 am

emptycloud wrote:Fortunately I have never bowed before any shrines or photographs. I was refused participation in a seminar once because I refused to bow towards a photograph. Talk about crazy, put me off training in the art until I found my present comrades 18yrs ago. Not a snap shot or shrine for miles.

We have even forgotten the name of techniques, "hello-roto-moto" I think one used to be called.

What is needed is a manifesto of Neo-Aikido.

We need to sift through the possible autism of Ueshiba, and to respect the context of practice within the modern world.

I use the term crackpot in an affectionate way. A man who learns his art from the voices of Gods is a crackpot. A loverly crackpot. My kind of crackpot.

It is clear that Ueshiba was wrestling with mental demons his whole life, in modern terms he would of been diagnosed and perhaps sought medical help.

Lets not inherit his fantasies. We live in an era of unprecedented brain/body science this is the foundation upon which Neo-Aikido builds it laboratory.

We honour the past, but are rooted in the present and its relevant frustrations.

Patience, perseverance and perspiration, we all walk the same path.

If Ueshiba were alive today how would he of responded to the illuminations of modern mind/body research.. This is the path that neo or modern aikido embarks upon.


Rich


To put it bluntly, you don't have a clue about Ueshiba. My suggestion would be to do a lot more research into him before posting about him. He learned his art from Sokaku Takeda of Daito ryu fame. Ueshiba was an avid reader, including a lot of Chinese classics. There was no autism, no "wrestling with mental demons", no crackpot. While certainly living a spiritual life under the tutelage of Deguchi, Ueshiba still presented a sane, martial, formidable figure which drew the likes of some very highly regarded, political, and popular figures of his time. I'm not sure what path you're taking in your training, but your theories about Ueshiba are very wrong.
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby Zonker on Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:40 am

emptycloud wrote:Fortunately I have never bowed before any shrines or photographs. I was refused participation in a seminar once because I refused to bow towards a photograph. Talk about crazy, put me off training in the art until I found my present comrades 18yrs ago. Not a snap shot or shrine for miles.

We have even forgotten the name of techniques, "hello-roto-moto" I think one used to be called.

What is needed is a manifesto of Neo-Aikido.

We need to sift through the possible autism of Ueshiba, and to respect the context of practice within the modern world.

I use the term crackpot in an affectionate way. A man who learns his art from the voices of Gods is a crackpot. A loverly crackpot. My kind of crackpot.

It is clear that Ueshiba was wrestling with mental demons his whole life, in modern terms he would of been diagnosed and perhaps sought medical help.

Lets not inherit his fantasies. We live in an era of unprecedented brain/body science this is the foundation upon which Neo-Aikido builds it laboratory.

We honour the past, but are rooted in the present and its relevant frustrations.

Patience, perseverance and perspiration, we all walk the same path.

If Ueshiba were alive today how would he of responded to the illuminations of modern mind/body research.. This is the path that neo or modern aikido embarks upon.

Rich


You've got some stones, Rich. I'll give you that much. Under which of the DSM volumes/editions are you basing your suggestion that Ueshiba Morihei was possibly autistic? What is your professional background and experience that lends support or any credence to that suggestion? I am not a worshipper of Ueshiba Morihei, but I find it presumptuous and ridiculous that you feel that you can suggest in an open forum that any person, whom you've never met and have not reviewed any mental health assessment of, had a developmental disability or suffered from some psychological dysfunction.

BTW, what is "neo-aikido"? Is that the dance where people generate big balls of ki energy and throw them at uke from across the room or just the "no-touch" Watanabe shihan stuff? Hopefully, 'neo-aikido" is not the crappy watered-down, half-assed execution of jiujutsu throwing techniques that I've seen in many dojo for over 25 years.
Last edited by Zonker on Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:42 am

Neo aikido is simply an approach to the art based on modern mind/body science. Obviously one would not call the practice neo-aikido. just aikido.

As for the autism or perhaps savant syndrome, I am working on that. It is to do with Ueshiba's visions and beliefs.

It goes without saying that he was mentally burdened, his well documented anger is evidence. Mentally peaceful people do not get angry, often.

I suspect he was grieving the loss of his children, along with the disaster that was Japans experience of world war 2.

I like it down here in the forum dungeon.

Rich
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby Zonker on Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:48 am

Bollocks.
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:55 am

Chris Li wrote:
WVMark wrote:Ueshiba was far from a crackpot.*** Had he been so, Admirals Takeshita or Asano wouldn't have studied under him. Neither would any of the Black Dragon society members. Neither would have sumo champion Tenryu.


In modern terms it would be like walking into a dojo today whose board of directors included George Bush and Barack Obama, and whose students included people like Colin Powell, Henry Kissenger and Muhammed Ali.

It seems to me that most Aikido people today, either openly or privately, actually do consider Morihei Ueshiba to have been a crackpot, and consider what he said to be mostly unintelligible garbage. Of course, most of those folks bow to his picture in reverence every time they train, are religious about addressing him with honorifics, and regularly quote bits of his writings out of context. In my experience most of them have a hard time seeing the disconnect.

Best,

Chris


What then if those aforementioned men in the dojo drag your country into a war which results in your country being burned and bombed beyond belief.

Would this have deep psychological repercussions upon said dojo proprietor..?

It's a pity Mrs Ueshiba never told her side of the story..
Last edited by emptycloud on Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby WVMark on Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:48 pm

Zonker wrote:Bollocks.


Yeah. Definitely.
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:03 am

WVMark wrote:
Zonker wrote:Bollocks.


Yeah. Definitely.



Don't you think that in general the accounts of Ueshiba's life lack something. A certain emotional depth.

His inner life is usually paralleled with his awesomeness as a martial artist and as a mystic.
This kind of distorts the emotionally tragic events that he lived through.

Which is why Mrs Ueshiba account of things would illuminating.

Rich
Last edited by emptycloud on Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bob Nadeau Aikido

Postby Zonker on Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:38 pm

I'm not feeding the troll anymore.
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