Desparation

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Falling over...

Postby Bodywork on Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:50 am

......
Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Falling over...

Postby RobP2 on Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:00 am

I don't know how to explain guys learning basic ground impact management / falling any better than saying " this is guys learning basic ground - impact- management" and showing a clip which, to most people it seems, clearly shows that.

I'm not at all surprised about the rest of your assumptions/gossip/suppositions / opinions, quite the opposite in fact
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Re: Falling over...

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:11 pm

Nice the way you edited the post to make out you wernt bragging about how good you were
But then you go and talk about all the mean dudes you know
Then you still don't answer why you don't use your real name and post no info about yourself
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Re: Falling over...

Postby Bodywork on Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:50 pm

.....
Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Falling over...

Postby Spncr on Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:30 pm

IME having met both Dan and Vlad... I can understand where both perspectives are coming from (I think lol... oh no, i just said that.) For instance I'll address one of Dan's comments.

*Teaching Someone they can move from a knife point right on their chest.


I have done this drill many times and have never been told that in a real situation, I can or should "move from a knife point right on my chest." I understand why you would think that this is whats being taught having seen it in videos online (without proper explanation/context etc.) In this regard its makes a lot of sense to me why you don't post any videos. Also its probable that some Systema teachers do actually teach to "move from a knife point right on your chest" (theres a lot of bad MA out there as you all know), but this has not been my experience. It has been explained to me when shown, that it is just another "sensitivity" drill for learning to move in a new way, not merely a stupid strategy to employ when being attacked with a knife. Now whether or not this exercise would improve ones chances in a real encounter with a knife wielding attacker, is up for debate. Personally, I understand the merits of doing drills like some of that shown in the OP or as mentioned above, but Dan, I definitely agree with you too...

...explain it better


I don't doubt that many people have lost their lives throughout the ages because of some dogmatic MA bullshit they believed. It is the responsibility of those showing the techniques to make sure that those they are teaching understand properly... that is if they even understand properly or have a concept of responsibility. I can also understand how it might be difficult to make the general public understand anything through watching clips online, perhaps just another reason not to post videos in the first place.

P.S. Don't stop posting videos!
Last edited by Spncr on Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Falling over...

Postby Bodywork on Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:57 pm

....
Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Falling over...

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:02 pm

Just because there is a web site on the bottom of the page dose not mean the person using a link to that website is the main man
That is why each time I am curious about what someone says I go to their name tag to see where they are coming from
I did go to your site and there is very little there
It says it is under construction
It would be good if connected to the name tags we had a link to any YouTube videos
Then we would know if someone is just starting out or has reached the levels you have
Teaching seminars is good and many great masters have done so like earl montigue and Adam misner but sadly not all people reach those levels
To finish off I would like to appologise if I offended in any way
I was just responding to what was written not knowing who the author was
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Re: Falling over...

Postby willywrong on Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:06 pm

Bodywork wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:If all these people know who you are and how deadly you are why don't you use your real name or post any info about yourself

Deadly?
Really? How fascinating.
My Name is Dan Harden I live in the U. S. In Mass. My web page is at the bottom of my signature. And I travel and teach in open rooms in front of about 1200 people a year. My students range from shihan to over 20 shihan in traditional and modern arts including koryu to bjj world champs and MMA guys. And...I teach a bunch of Systema guys with Vlads approval.
It's not a competition. Cross training enhances everyone's work. He knows I respect systema on many levels.

Deadly? Hmm... Did you really just say that on a martial arts forum? I can introduce you to old school bikers I used to hang with who, on the whole, are more dangerous than ANY martial artist I've ever met. More importantly real spec ops friends of mine who I teach. THEY.. really are deadly. With body counts, bad dreams, PTSD and all that goes with it. We are all pikers compared to those guys.


You sound like your suffering from hubris so more power to you. Checked out your web site and face book page and lo and behold no video's so I guess the only option is to attend one of your seminars. Sounds a lot like Mohammad (The Arab prophet who, according to Islam, was the last messenger of Allah (570-632)). ::)
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Re: Falling over...

Postby dspyrido on Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:10 pm

Dan (aka bodywork) clearly you've done some aikido but is there a profile of your background anywhere? Also you tend to talk down about a lot of stylists so why not promote some - who do you or did you respect?

Robp2 sorry to derail the thread. Also I like your playground for oldies approach to falling. Looks like some fellas would gain a lot on a health perspective especially if they started by breakfalling like a brick.
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Re: Falling over...

Postby Bodywork on Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:10 pm

.....
Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Falling over...

Postby Patrick on Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:09 am

How can one attend your seminars? I tried but got no reply. I am a nice - but critical - respectful guy and my fighting ability is minimal, so the worst thing that could happen is that I would not be impressed. ???


PS: Good video Rob. There is a a Health Professional with good reputation who tries to incorporate exactly such stuff for elderly people, but of course in a lighter way for "fall prevention" ;D
Last edited by Patrick on Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Falling over...

Postby Bodywork on Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:46 am

.....
Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Falling over...

Postby dspyrido on Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:26 am

Bodywork wrote:
dspyrido wrote:Dan (aka bodywork) clearly you've done some aikido but is there a profile of your background anywhere? Also you tend to talk down about a lot of stylists so why not promote some - who do you or did you respect?

Because I have so many teachers training with me I try to stay away from recommending individuals.
I respect anyone... anyone....who is honest about their training and their goals; from newbies to Shihan.
I'm critical of things and people that are not as advertised, such as:
*soft art people thinking- really imagining- they can fight,
*internal people who don't have a Dantian or move from the center and think they do because they hit hard,
*most anyone with a weapon in their hands who shouldn't have.
*external artists who dismiss internals

That said there are thousands of decent martial artists out there. And you should only care what I think if I present a good argument. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I just get ornery when I see or read garbage information.

The internet is too much of students who shouldn't be talking or youtubing *anything* to *anyone* at this point in their training then getting hurt, angry and defensive when they are called on their short comings.The kua thread is a good example:
I was stating people don't know what they are taking about, then refusing to tell them the answer because it was in their own arts, proding them to find the answers. And there the answers were, from their own teachers. Why didn't they know?
We need to feel less entitled to answers
Less sensitive and defensive to correction
More humble about where we are in our journey. Sharing, just because you own a camera, isn't going too well in my view.
I love the comment one teacher gave when asked why he wouldn't talk on internet forums.
"Why argue... with students?"
I thought that was poignant; reminding everyone of their place and their willingness to argue... from the bottom.

Or how about a 74 year old who trained and was ranked from Ueshiba, who showed the training they use to do, pushing on the body and how Ueshiba would laugh at the guys wanting to just grab and do techniques. When we told her about the internet debate between old and modern methods she nodded and said:
"Oh, internet. What do they know? Did they train with Osensei!"
If all of us met and trained together....
Both the tone and nature of these discussions would radically change. So would the list if people you were willing to listen to.


Dan I don't want to sound like a smartarse but... whatever its the net.

You answered my question but you elected to answer without providing a direct answer. Your helpful responses are really koans. So I would like to understand...

What is your background? Deep down exchanging with thousands of people starts after you've had a foundation. What is your foundation? Answering this helps with unravelling your responses.

Who do respect? It helps provide a view that it's not all just about dan but about the community. So why not name one other great internalist who has guided you?

Either way at least you respond which is a good thing. Personally you can respond as brutally as you want. I am accustomed to roughing it in the effort for getting to the root or facts.

And sure I'd be happy to drop a few hundred bucks to go to a seminar on a punt. A few thou to go to another continent needs a bit more than faith.
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Re: Bodywork Seminars

Postby Bodywork on Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:32 am

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Last edited by Bodywork on Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Desparation

Postby wiesiek on Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:16 am

:)
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