is this real?

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Re: is this real?

Postby windwalker on Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:51 am

Dmitri wrote:
windwalker wrote:The evidence of fails as you mentioned is quite small, what you dont mention is that all the people there also had to prove it for themselves and found it to be real.
if 50 people found it worked on them 3 people dont what would you say ?

That's exactly the case with the test I posted... it's all about context.
Not to equate the two, but consider, say, coming to a member of the Heaven's Gate group and suggesting that they'll never board that comet and what they believe and feel is bogus. They'd probably pity you for not seeing the light.



we are not talking about heavens gate group.

still no comment on the clip I posted, many other clips posted showing what you
have already concluded.

the point is?
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Re: is this real?

Postby Dmitri on Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:39 am

windwalker wrote:we are not talking about heavens gate group.

no but we're talking about specialized subjective experiences, and what suggestion can do, and how very real it feels (and is) to the willing participants.

still no comment on the clip I posted,

Of course I did, I asked two questions. (It's BTDT times 1000 for most of RSF, but just doing it for the sake of those relatively new to the subject who might be reading). I have no other "comment".

many other clips posted showing what you have already concluded.

I posted only two clips (on one/same group)

the point is?

Point of what?



...


I have a couple of friends who have been investigating (independently from one another) dream-like states and out-of-body related meditation, for many many years. They are both very intelligent guys. Their experiences are very real to them and they (one much more than the other) tried to get me to try it to "see for myself". The trick is that these practices involve some serious "brainwashing", technically speaking. They essentially repeatedly convincing/reiterating to themselves what they're supposed to feel, in what order, how, etc. A participant must not only believe in the possibility of the existence of these things, but be very much willing to experience them. They eventually condition their brains to experience things. Brain is a pliable thing. But this approach by definition excludes any critical/scientific-like approach to the practice, and that's just not my thing. They're very happy with it though, so... all is well. :)
Last edited by Dmitri on Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: is this real?

Postby Bao on Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:04 am

Dmitri wrote:A participant must not only believe in the possibility of the existence of these things, but be very much willing to experience them. They eventually condition their brains to experience things. Brain is a pliable thing. But this approach by definition excludes any critical/scientific-like approach to the practice, and that's just not my thing. They're very happy with it though, so... all is well. :)


Interesting friends... On a side note, I do think that the world we know and experience is very much based on the same thing. A mass hypnosis maybe we could call it. We accept the picture of the world that science, research and history gives us, even if a lot that science gives us is very much based on speculation or things that allready has been altered by science. "Reality" might be much different from our understanding and how we normally percieve the world. Even critical thinking is "designed" both by our brains and our society to keep this picture intact.
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Re: is this real?

Postby windwalker on Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:55 pm

windwalker wrote:

some of his history

his live demos, he seems to move well


notice its not the same as depicted in most demos of the work.
would be interested in reading other thougts



at 8:05 the student explains why and what he feels.

very interesting in what the student describes and the teachers explanations for whats happening.
this is one of the fist clips, I've ever seen published where the student explains and the teacher explains whats happening according to
their view points.

edited: its not his students its a local karate club doing the demos...


your answer to my question


These guys also described what they felt, and it was all real and worked on them...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhnvETs4F6Q

...until these guys showed up to test (after one of the YB proponents had challenged them to come and test it, online at rec.martial-arts newsgroup).
Then all of a sudden, to those students' and teachers' amazement, none of it worked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ykNZ7rAcw


Questions I would ask:
1) Why?
2) Based on the evidence above (and many other similar examples), is this type of practice a worthwhile time investment for an MA practitioner (compared to other, more "earthly" things they could be working on instead)?


You posted some other clips and then asked questions about the clips you posted
then proceeded to explain something relating to your posted clips.

so no

]Of course I did, I asked two questions. (It's BTDT times 1000 for most of RSF, but just doing it for the sake of those relatively new to the subject who might be reading). I have no other "comment"


you did not ask anything about the clips I posted, you asked and answered your own questions about clips you posted. :-\

thanks for your one comment.

for the sake of those new to the subject

if one looks at the clips I posted they should see many things that are done quite skillfully nothing magic
most if not all can be explained in any number of different ways,
besides the standard answers given by some to dismiss what they cant do or have not felt.

no more to say on this...
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: is this real?

Postby RobP2 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:07 am

I was present at the filming of some of those "demonstrations" and also have close-up experience of the guy. IMO it's all down to student conditioning and nothing to do with "special powers"
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Re: is this real?

Postby wiesiek on Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:46 am

yes,
unfortunately...
I only one time in my life, experienced real " lama power",
but
it was not the counter to my hip throw... :D
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Re: is this real?

Postby Dmitri on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:24 am

windwalker wrote:your answer to my question

I didn't see any questions there.
And when you did ask actual questions, I answered them.

you did not ask anything about the clips I posted, you asked and answered your own questions about clips you posted. :-\

...which was a direct logical consequence, and in direct relation to your clips and the subject matter.

thanks for your one comment.

You're welcome.

nothing magic

Never said it was...

the standard answers given by some to dismiss what they cant do or have not felt.

That's because it is common sense, IMHO; that's why they're "standard", because most people who think critically will always ask the same questions. It is not a dismissal; it is an explanation that you happen to disagree with. ;) As you said, "all can be explained in any number of different ways"...

no more to say on this...

Dejavu? ;D
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Re: is this real?

Postby Simon on Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:31 am

I studied with the Lama....Robs post sums it up.

I always asked him to do it on me...but he never would he said my energy wasnt ready for it !!!!
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Re: is this real?

Postby DiaitaDoc on Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:36 am

Man, where's Emin Boztepe when you need him.
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Re: is this real?

Postby RobP2 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:42 am

DiaitaDoc wrote:Man, where's Emin Boztepe when you need him.


Lol, well a few of us were there but I don't think our interactions with him made the final cut....
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