Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

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Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby novamma on Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:27 am

who would you add? Def trying to get the right people exposure, credit where credit is due. too much woo-woo BS going on in Taijiquan that NEEDS TO STOP!

def looking for more legit teachers in Mainland China, Taiwan of the various styles of Taijiquan.


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Last edited by novamma on Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby Michael Babin on Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:00 am

Your motives seem good but I'm not sure that there's much point to a diagram like this one even if it is more positive than your last one.

I see many names that I would agree with in part because I have experienced them in workshops over the years [Sam Masich, Tim Cartmell, William C.C. Chen, Yang Jwing Ming & Liang Shouyu]; others name I am less sure of by reputation or from what I have seen in videos. Others I have met who are less famous but have much to offer aren't there and if you start trying to make a diagram or list more inclusive how big will it get!

Course, you left me out so I might just be bitter! :D
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby Bhassler on Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:16 am

Chen Yu, Chen Ziqiang, Chen Zhonghua, Frank Shiery, Yang Yang, Geroge Xu, Adam Hsu...

EDIT: Those are just some of the high profile guys off the top of my head. If I took just a little bit of time I could find as many more famous ones and just as many lesser known guys.
Last edited by Bhassler on Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby charles on Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:28 am

While I applaud your efforts, there is a difficulty in the endeavour.

There are people who have good skills but who either aren't skilled teachers or who don't care if their students "get it" or not. Then there are people who are good teachers who don't have particularly high skills. Then there are those who are all about students getting it, but have neither good skills nor are they good teachers.

Unfortunately, there won't be a lot of agreement on who's who and what's what.

Having wrestled with this for more than two decades, it seems the best that one can do is to match the interests and goals of a particular student with a teacher that satisfies that. There really are people out there who WANT woo-woo Taijiquan. And, one person's woo-woo is another person's Holy Grail. There isn't much to be done about that but to match what a student wants with a teacher who provides that.

Some of those listed in your "circle of trust" are in my personal experience and opinion "woo-woo" and I would never recommend them to someone who has similar interests and goals as mine. Obviously, others have different opinions and experiences.

What "good" training is is so subjective. One person's "real deal" is another's "fluff". Welcome to Tai Chi.
Last edited by charles on Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby Michael Babin on Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:19 am

P.S. What Charles just said... A+
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby Bhassler on Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:09 am

I don't know about the "circle of trust" as a complete or authoritative reference, but I very much support the idea of calling out folks who are doing good things and seem to be good people. I would very much like to see more of that on RSF-- not even as a point of discussion or because someone is supposed to be exemplary, just a "I saw this" or "I met this guy" and thought it was cool.
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby novamma on Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:31 am

Great feedback, of course it will be a incomplete list and I do think gin soon chu is woo-woo after someone showed me this woo-woo video of his very recently.
case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKtK-ifyasc

Some really good suggestions: i had forgot to put chen zhonghua, i think he is doing a lot of good work. I will be adding more based on feeback here and on FB.

Fully endorse and been to the following seminars, completely non woo-woo martial artists:

Ben Lo- CMC taiji
Taijiquan Saber form.- James Fu.
Taiji Tui Shou and Da Lu.- Fu Sheng Yuan.
Yang Taijiquan- Yang Jun.
Tong Bei- White Ape Kung fu.- Douglas Chin.
Taijiquan 42 compulsory Taijiquan.- Nick Gracenin.
Taijiquan 42 compulsory sword.-Nick Gracenin.
Xingyiquan (Hsingyi chuan)- Liang Shouyu and Sam Masich
Chen Taijiquan compulsory form.- Xia Bai Hua and Madame Xu Ru.
Qi-na: self defense.- Cai Hong Xian.
Park Bok Nam: Pa Kua Chang school for one year.
Wu style with Odessa Brooks (Wu Yinghua) and Dr. Li Li (Ma Yue Liang) group in Shanghai.
Virginia Beach: Madam Leanne Gehan from Shanghai and Master Xianhao Cheng from Hangzhou China.
Chen Taijiquan seminars: Chen zhen Lei (Lao jia Yi Lu, Xian jia Er lu), Chen Xiao Wang (Lao jia yi lu and er lu), Zhu tian Cai (chan su jin and basics)
Michuan Yangjia Taijiquan 13 form- mike Basvandanos.
Scott Rodell: Taiji san shou full contact fighting.
William CC Chen: taijiquan form, sword, fighting.
Lu De xiu- taiji push hands.
Yang Hai- Xingyi spear.



I am sure i am missing a few seminars I have been too, but these are who i can think of at the moment.

NB
Last edited by novamma on Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby novamma on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:18 pm

updates made. with all this woo-woo going on...who can you trust? well some of these guys is a good start...their trusted students as well.

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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:46 am

Show me video of yourself so that I can see your right to make the above assumptions
And that's all they are
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby Bao on Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:11 am

MA Jiangbo, Doc Faiwong, Ian Sinclair and some more of those you trust have a lot of excessive bouncy-bouncy fajin vids. They speak about qi and stuff others call bogus. Others are not necessarily tai chi experttips and primarily focus on other styles. And some of them could be accused of not being "internal". So good then that you left out Tim Cartmell... ;)

My point is just that every teacher or "master" have their own flaws and mistakes. Some might be cult leaders, but other than that, it would be good trying to see through the surface and explore those things that might be valuable.
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby jonathan.bluestein on Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:20 am

I think that this chart will work better when also presented as a Microsoft Excel sheet, complete with addresses, phone numbers, emails, facebook, etc. Just saying.

Our very own Dr. Gary Stier ought to be there on the chart. He teaches old Yang style.

Yang Hai from Montreal, Canada, should be added. He teaches Chen. A disciple of Ma Hong and Feng Zhiqiang.

Chen Juntuan I believe is a nephew of Chen Xiaowang teaches in China and abroad and is very serious, though low-key. But he's accessible.

Zhang Suisheng teaches Zhaobao Taiji on the mainland and in Taiwan, and I think may have done a seminar or two abroad.

Frantzis should be classified as a Wu style teacher, that's his primary thing nowadays.

Nigel Sutton teaches mostly Chen Manqing Taiji, I think. He has studied lots of styles though.

Ken Guellette teaches Chen, though not sure if still openly.

Yang Jwing Ming and his disciple Sam Masich both do Yang style.

Marin Spivack is a disciple of Chen Yu and teaches his quality gongfu in Boston.
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby novamma on Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:17 am

Thanks Jonathan.

**work in progress** version 2.1

I added most of those folks. some are in particular categories for reasons. while many do yang style, yang family is another monster. Not sure if BK is really recognized as a Wu taijiquan lineage person with Wu family. I think I should move Doc Fei wong from Yang and shift some others around. I added some new categories: full contact and push hands people. Also Wudang Pai Tai chi.

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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby charles on Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:27 am

[quote="jonathan.bluestein"
Yang Hai from Montreal, Canada, should be added. He teaches Chen. A disciple of Ma Hong and Feng Zhiqiang.[/quote]

He isn't a disciple of Feng's.
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:38 am

wayne hansen wrote:Show me video of yourself so that I can see your right to make the above assumptions
And that's all they are


"that's all they are"

quite agree ;)

people looking at teachers to provide them with what should be their own answers.
Teaches are only examples of what one seeks, helping others to find the same things they found.

Knowing some of the teaches on the "circle of trust" seems kind of funny ;D
too much woo-woo BS going on in Taijiquan that NEEDS TO STOP!


their practices include a lot of what the OP is trying to stop,
guess the OP didnt get a chance to practice with them. :-\
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Re: Taijiquan 'Circle of Trust' NB's brainstormin'

Postby charles on Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:09 am

windwalker wrote:their practices include a lot of what the OP is trying to stop,
\


It's a noble endeavour, but a fool's errand. As somebody once said, "The road to hell is paved with good intention."

Selling your particular "brand" of what you think is good, isn't much different than those you are rallying against who are selling what they think is good. It's all selling. If someone wants what you have or know, let them come to you, rather than try to ram it down their throat. If someone is looking for a "good" teacher, let them ask you, rather than you creating discussion forums, tables, charts, websites... endorsing some and decrying others.

Telling others what they should or should not be looking for in a teacher, or who they should or should not be studying with is a level of arrogance and ego one is best to avoid. It's up there with telling people what their goals and expectations should be for their studies, what they should be getting out of their personal practice.
Last edited by charles on Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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