seeing

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

seeing

Postby windwalker on Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:49 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_4NpUiXs7A

Grand master Gao Zhuangfei on Wu-style Taiji

In many of the recent threads what is shown is questioned by those it would seem who can not really see whats going on.
In this clip, the teacher clearly explains whats going on using ideas out of physics coupled with traditional chinese thought for areas physics does not address.

he talks about spirals, center, yin/yang, dantain, and change
some have suggested students, magic ect for what is shown...it may seem so but all is really based on
a high level of skill and understanding. most if not all the teachers who can do these things will say and use the same ideas presented
"all of them"

in his demo, in the partner parts that people will question, the first part he starts out is "what or why does this happen" and then goes on to explain it.
for non chinese speakers watch the body movements, and reactions a lot of it should be clear.

the teacher is a Wu stylist
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: seeing

Postby JoeWood on Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:27 am

Gold mine of info nice find! Thanks for sharing.
JoeWood
Anjing
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 10:31 am
Location: Merriam - Kansas

Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:04 pm

JoeWood wrote:Gold mine of info nice find! Thanks for sharing.


he talks a lot about the field around the body, and kong jin, how it relates and interfaces
with the mind and body. Its quite interesting each point/place / has an empty full aspect
the body must be round, the mind must also be round.

at 4:15 he talks about cross body alignment

lots of info even if one can not understand what is being said directly. If one watches his movement
none of extends beyond his space.

10:25 he shows how to control the space by joining with the others space, not by pushing against it as some might think
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: seeing

Postby shawnsegler on Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:38 pm

It would be really nice to have a translation of this. It's pretty hard to comment on otherwise.

S
I prefer
You behind the wheel
And me the passenger
User avatar
shawnsegler
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6552
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: The center of things.

Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:22 am

shawnsegler wrote:It would be really nice to have a translation of this. It's pretty hard to comment on otherwise.

S


not directed at the "OP" ;) just some gen thoughts

Instead of reading about it, it would be better to try it ;)

He is talking about what is called a "qi chong" or the space around ones body
and how to move it, he also shows and mentions spiral power. When the other touches
his leg its the same as what is being questioned in Caseys clips...w


all the things he talks about are being demoed here.



spiral power,
cross body alignment
moving the center following with the body.

a lot of it is explained in detail here
Image

The above figure shows a spherical shape with its center outside the body. Note that the defender’s body is inside the extension of the spherical surface at the contact point P.6

http://www.chuckrowtaichi.com/ChengCh.7.html

when people see it actually put to use, it tends to be questioned as on another thread.
have felt all that is shown some I can do...
There are many, teachers showing and talking about the same things.
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:31 am


Grand master Gao Zhuangfei's pushing hands demonstration


the teacher is a wu style master.
4:30

his talking about emptying and becoming full. the change between the two.
he shows opening and closing all things that are talked about on this site

I showed a couple of Casyes teachers clip to a student of his who also knows my teacher.
The student is very skilled....
His comment about Casyes teacher " the teacher is very skilled, only few of Grandmaster Huang Sheng Shyan students reached this level,"

After he met Grandmaster Huang of Malaysia, he realized that here was finally someone who possessed soft martial skills. He studied as much as possible with Huang when he visited Taiwan. Later Master Wang was able to discover the secrets of softness and called his new art search center in order to emphasize softness rather than pushing.

http://www.searchcentertaichi.com/search.html

for more on Teacher huang sheng shyan
http://www.huangtaichitenom.com/eabout.html
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: seeing

Postby shawnsegler on Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:52 am

It's still worthless without what he says. Maybe not worthless, as I did get enough out of it to actually think it was worth commenting on but it certainly doesn't support anything you're saying other than you say it supports what you're saying. This is an issue with how you choose to relate on this board, dude.

Just sayin.

S
Last edited by shawnsegler on Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
I prefer
You behind the wheel
And me the passenger
User avatar
shawnsegler
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6552
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: The center of things.

Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:23 pm

shawnsegler wrote:It's still worthless without what he says. Maybe not worthless, as I did get enough out of it to actually think it was worth commenting on but it certainly doesn't support anything you're saying other than you say it supports what you're saying. This is an issue with how you choose to relate on this board, dude.

Just sayin.S


and you know this how?
amazing isnt it. Those who get it, get it, those who dont no matter what said or shown.

For you to say it dosent support it, you would have to be able to do it or know it, or felt others who can do it
....and yet your asking for a translation for something that is pretty clear to those who have direct experience with it.


"dude"

its not my issue.

lot of others have left that could have provided clarity on what is shown
why bother,,, :-\

just saying
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: seeing

Postby amor on Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:38 am

would love to know what the teacher is saying, Translators please???
amor
Wuji
 
Posts: 641
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 4:40 am

Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:12 am

Emptiness and flexibility are the first key to the skill.

Understand this theory like a genius then in one or two years full awareness may be reached. An unintelligent person may spend their whole life in practice and study but will still not be able to reach this level. Thus, a person's achievement, deep or shallow, is also a function of a person's innate talent and intelligence. Not everyone can be placed in the same category. Practice the skill in the early morning or in the quiet of the night without disturbance from others practicing.

Do not show off in front of other people. A poem entitled, "Poem of Movement" explains, "The Great Dao (Tao) cannot be removed from even the smallest, lowliest piece of ground."

Do not have intention. Do not have the mind. Do not rely on your chest to move the energy and qi. Your mind should completely relax and follow nature. Allow all parts of the body to naturally rely on one-another. Once you are without intention, once you are without mind, the true mind is then in the place where there is no mind. Once you do not have mind in the middle, you will not have a shape. At that time, emptiness will produce the true empty and flexible. Feel the connection with the universe. Everything comes from nature.

https://www.qi-journal.com/Taiji.asp?-t ... 20Skill%20

a good article that outlines many of ideas and concepts used in the the clips shown..
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: seeing

Postby willie on Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:55 pm

Seeing? Seeing what, a guy jumping back?
Seeing means the ability to "SEE" energy, wrong title.
Entertainment.
willie

 

Re: seeing

Postby shawnsegler on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:03 pm

windwalker wrote:
shawnsegler wrote:It's still worthless without what he says. Maybe not worthless, as I did get enough out of it to actually think it was worth commenting on but it certainly doesn't support anything you're saying other than you say it supports what you're saying. This is an issue with how you choose to relate on this board, dude.

Just sayin.S


and you know this how?
amazing isnt it. Those who get it, get it, those who dont no matter what said or shown.

For you to say it dosent support it, you would have to be able to do it or know it, or felt others who can do it
....and yet your asking for a translation for something that is pretty clear to those who have direct experience with it.


"dude"

its not my issue.

lot of others have left that could have provided clarity on what is shown
why bother,,, :-\

just saying


And this yet again shows the limitations of discussing this stuff in print.

And I know this how? Amazing isn't it? You really don't get how your discussion of this stuff comes across do you? Its obvious you didn't understand what I meant, but I'll stand by it.

Worthless! How? It is worthless to me to get this little info and understand it in the same way it's worthless to convey your point and come here with your 10,000 variations on "those who know know" "It is subtle and worthwhile but most won't get it" etc etc etc.

I actually probably understand more than you think from what I saw which is why I brought it up rather than ignore it, but there are simply HUGE LIMITATIONS in getting anything on this subject across without describing it in some detail. That's why an article that "outlines" concepts DOESN"T HELP. Hearing the teacher discuss it might and it's my limitation that I don't speak anything but English.

The problem is either you Don't actually know this stuff well enough to talk about (possible) since as an old teacher said to me, and he could back it up, that if you can't explain it simply you simply don't understand it. Another possibility is you're just not very good at explaining things. No shame in that but it's frustrating if so and you keep talking about it like it was a thing but you just can't explain it. Third Possibility you get it, can explain it but just don't choose to. If this is the case why are you even here discussing it? 4th possibility You know it, can explain it, want to but will only explain it people who agree with you which is also possible but would only leave you with gullible sycophants or someone like Casey who you like so much because he talks the same weird unhelpful mysterious banter. So which is it?

I was/am legitimately interested in this vid and as I said probably get a lot more of it than you think but once again...without the teacher actually explaining it it's pretty worthless.

After 16-17 years of talking about this stuff online I've discovered that there's lots about this stuff thats very hard to discuss online but there is stuff to learn if you listen and the person talking understands the stuff. D Glenn's stuff for example is often hard to follow but he's a reasonable enough fellow on the subject of ICMA that he'll explain it if people don't get what he's talking about or at least try to the best of his ability. The same can be said of many other RSF people, but if you really want to have productive discussions about this stuff you need to back it up with well...actually discussing it in a way others can understand. If you don't that's fine too but don't make out like you do or if you do and can and don't wish to then make that clear as well rather than just talking about how mysterious things are and some will get it and some won't. It's tiresome.

Best wishes,

S
I prefer
You behind the wheel
And me the passenger
User avatar
shawnsegler
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6552
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: The center of things.

Re: seeing

Postby willie on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:38 pm

There's a reason why the other 10.000 taiji players on this site hate to put vid's of themselves online.
It's because other taiji players are trained to see their energy and their medical issues.
They look right through you and you can not fool them at all.
Anyone could be taught how to have this skill.
So, how am I to believe that a guy who has incredible cultivation, which is clearly seen. does not project
people flying in the air from empty non-touch force. but the vid's of master's with very little outward cultivation do?
there is your proof.
Last edited by willie on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
willie

 

Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:09 pm

gullible sycophants or someone like Casey who you like so much because he talks the same weird unhelpful mysterious banter. So which is it?


Wow so either I like them or they’er gullible sycophants. Not much choice. ;)

How about people like myself, Casey and others have had similar experiences and have arrived at some of the same
understandings maybe expressed in different ways.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:48 am, edited 4 times in total.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:57 pm

There's a reason why the other 10.000 taiji players on this site hate to put vid's of themselves online.
It's because other taiji players are trained to see their energy and their medical issues.
They look right through you and you can not fool them at all.


I think people should post what they feel comfortable with, not challenged to put up clips.
What others see may or may not be there, kinda depends on who is doing the seeing.

Anyone could be taught how to have this skill.
So, how am I to believe that a guy who has incredible cultivation, which is clearly seen. does not project people flying in the air from empty non-touch force. but the vid's of master's with very little outward cultivation do?
there is your proof.


I don’t know about my proof, it might be yours.
As I’ve said before even with those there with the teacher, there is disagreement as to what is really happening.
I can resonant with some of what Casey posted but would disagree in some of the names he uses to categorize them. “taiji hipsters” lol ;)

Recently a student of mine returned from Taiwan meeting with another teacher who is
more public about his work…He mentioned a ph competitor had come to learn this aspect from the teacher.
The competitor pointed to some other students working on the kong-jin
stuff saying they could do this but where not to good at the basic stuff…"yet"
There is a view point on this, but not really needed here on this thread.

I did find it very interesting as it really resonated with what Dglenn, posted a while back.

My point and has always been my point is that whether touched or not,
the underlining principles of how it works are the same.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 8478
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Next

Return to Been There Done That

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests