seeing

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: seeing

Postby willie on Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:24 pm

windwalker wrote:
There's a reason why the other 10.000 taiji players on this site hate to put vid's of themselves online.
It's because other taiji players are trained to see their energy and their medical issues.
They look right through you and you can not fool them at all.


I think people should post what they feel comfortable with, not challenged to put up clips.
What others see may or may not be there, kinda depends on who is doing the seeing.

Anyone could be taught how to have this skill.
So, how am I to believe that a guy who has incredible cultivation, which is clearly seen. does not project people flying in the air from empty non-touch force. but the vid's of master's with very little outward cultivation do?
there is your proof.


I don’t know about my proof, it might be yours.
As I’ve said before even with those there with the teacher, there is disagreement as to what is really happening.
I can resonant with some of what Casey posted but would disagree in some of the names he uses to categorize them. “taiji hipsters” lol ;)

Recently a student of mine returned from Taiwan meeting with another teacher who is
more public about his work…He mentioned a ph competitor had come to learn this aspect from the teacher.
The competitor pointed to some other students working on the kong-jin
stuff saying they could do this but where not to good at the basic stuff…"yet"
There is a view point on this, but not really needed here on this thread.

I did find it very interesting as it really resonated with what Dglenn, posted a while back.

My point and has always been my point is that whether touched or not,
the underlining principles of how it works are the same.


Alright, alright, alright already.
First off just about every taiji player knows there is something else. Right from Wuji.

This is what I was told like 13 years ago when I asked about this stuff on the net.
The people who are moving or jumping away from un-seen forces are doing it as a training
exorcise. The exorcise is to try to tune into the energy of the movement itself. The reason for the exorcise is to
have like a early warning radar installed. That way they could anticipate and respond to any movement
that would put them in danger before it hit them. But that is not what they are showing, They are showing
something that has gone too far. No one on the street who attacks them would just feel their energy and bounce away.
They would be beaten up badly.
willie

 

Re: seeing

Postby cloudz on Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:15 am

I see soft martial arts practice mixed with psychology and other things like "face" culture, creating something of an illusion. Dude, I really had a humdinger of a post for you that got eaten by the webs. Part of me is glad, because on some level it's just mean to pick on you, and it just feels like that sometimes. I swear my intentions are good!

Here's something for you that I think is related to what we often see, it was a link in the suggestion link posted on Casey's thread by Dyspirado. Absolutely fascinating stuff really. It's no wonder all these "demo shows" exist, given all the baggage, it would be far more curious if they didn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_phenomenon

Also Well said Willie! You do realise WW is not actually trying to convince anyone of anything, I mean you know that right, right!??
Last edited by cloudz on Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:30 am

Also Well said Willie! You do realise WW is not actually trying to convince anyone of anything, I mean you know that right, right!??


haha good one over the morning coffee.
Its supposed to be a discussion board ;)

a better track would have been to posit a theory by which it could or would work and then see if
one could use this to replicate it.

a lot of the teachers really are using physics to explain what is being done
coupled with Chinese thought where physics doesn't or cant address.

There are people working on getting the essence of what is being done down to a more understandable
and shorter training time with out a lot of the older ideas that even for
native speakers are not so easy to understand.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
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Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:33 pm

Here's something for you that I think is related to what we often see, it was a link in the suggestion link posted on Casey's thread by Dyspirado. Absolutely fascinating stuff really. It's no wonder all these "demo shows" exist, given all the baggage, it would be far more curious if they didn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_phenomenon


would not agree with the article nor with NLP as some have mentioned.
It is interesting I've looked at a lot of different studies like this, IMO what they suggest seems to be different.
The clips I've presented show some of most clear IMO explanations of it so far except that they are in Chinese.
With out direct experience they might be a little hard to understand something that I dont always pay attention
to in posting them....maybe a different approach is needed.
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
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Re: seeing

Postby Michael on Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:58 am

It looks to me that around 1:40 in the video, the student is no longer touching the teacher's right arm because the teacher pulled it away, then the teacher makes a verbal command, then the student, who is not touching the teacher, jumps away.
"but we’re going to hunt down that last point-one percent and say: ‘you’ve gotta get inside, you gotta cut it out, and you gotta distance.’” —Mayor Garcetti
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Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:18 am

Michael wrote:It looks to me that around 1:40 in the video, the student is no longer touching the teacher's right arm because the teacher pulled it away, then the teacher makes a verbal command, then the student, who is not touching the teacher, jumps away.


what video, time stamp would be good ?
what did the teacher say?

In the process of getting some things translated by one of my students
In talking with him, in gen, he mentioned that most of what I've talked about is also what the teacher
has said....

The teacher talks about a field around the body and the body itself, they both can change becoming empty and full, opened and closed.
The teacher makes his field yin to the students yang. Think of a balloon or ball and suddenly its popped. The field would be the ball, the air in the ball
is the mind or awareness creating the field.

The reaction in most cases is to jump or move away, In this case its the field that suddenly changes. The body also has changes but
they'er different.

Form is emptiness and the very emptiness is form; emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness; whatever is form, that is emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form, the same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses and consciousness.

heart sutra

This has an effect of making the
student feel as though there is nothing there.
the student jumps back as a reaction to something that
his body has sensed by no longer can feel.

the point of contact can be called the yin /yang point.

Emptiness and flexibility are the first key to the skill.

Understand this theory like a genius then in one or two years full awareness may be reached. An unintelligent person may spend their whole life in practice and study but will still not be able to reach this level. Thus, a person's achievement, deep or shallow, is also a function of a person's innate talent and intelligence. Not everyone can be placed in the same category.


what is said here is basically out lined by almost every teacher who teaches this type of work....
Its hard to understand even by those there who experience it.

many are working on updating and condensing the why, what and how things are being done...
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:13 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: seeing

Postby willie on Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:54 pm

windwalker wrote:
Michael wrote:It looks to me that around 1:40 in the video, the student is no longer touching the teacher's right arm because the teacher pulled it away, then the teacher makes a verbal command, then the student, who is not touching the teacher, jumps away.


what video, time stamp would be good ?
what did the teacher say?

In the process of getting some things translated by one of my students
In talking with him, in gen, he mentioned that most of what I've talked about is also what the teacher
has said....

The teacher talks about a field around the body and the body itself, they both can change becoming empty and full, opened and closed.
The teacher makes his field yin to the students yang. Think of a balloon or ball and suddenly its popped. The field would be the ball, the air in the ball
is the mind or awareness creating the field.

The reaction in most cases is to jump or move away, In this case its the field that suddenly changes. The body also has changes but
they'er different.

Form is emptiness and the very emptiness is form; emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness; whatever is form, that is emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form, the same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses and consciousness.

heart sutra

This has an effect of making the
student feel as though there is nothing there.
the student jumps back as a reaction to something that
his body has sensed by no longer can feel.

the point of contact can be called the yin /yang point.

Emptiness and flexibility are the first key to the skill.

Understand this theory like a genius then in one or two years full awareness may be reached. An unintelligent person may spend their whole life in practice and study but will still not be able to reach this level. Thus, a person's achievement, deep or shallow, is also a function of a person's innate talent and intelligence. Not everyone can be placed in the same category.


what is said here is basically out lined by almost every teacher who teaches this type of work....
Its hard to understand even by those there who experience it.

many are working on updating and condensing the why, what and how things are being done...


Windy it appears that you are assuming that others on this site are not high enough level to understand you. Am I correct?
Or that everyone is unintelligent and could never achieve high level skill if were not doing empty non-touch force?
willie

 

Re: seeing

Postby windwalker on Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:23 pm

Windy it appears that you are assuming that others on this site are not high enough level to understand you. Am I correct?
Or that everyone is unintelligent and could never achieve high level skill if were not doing empty non-touch force?


actually its the opposite

I understand and realize my own failure at presenting my thoughts here.

Its always my hope that by showing masters who can explain and demo things I have felt, study
and work with that others would also see the same things I do...

I would hope that others more learned would step in and make it more clear
instead it seems that many may know of people but few speak of it or them...at least here...
with this being said....

time for me to chill for a little while....
happy holidays to all ;)
"Writing your name on water. The greatest thing is to be ordinary."
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Re: seeing

Postby willie on Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:51 pm

windwalker wrote:
Windy it appears that you are assuming that others on this site are not high enough level to understand you. Am I correct?
Or that everyone is unintelligent and could never achieve high level skill if were not doing empty non-touch force?


actually its the opposite

I understand and realize my own failure at presenting my thoughts here.

Its always my hope that by showing masters who can explain and demo things I have felt, study
and work with that others would also see the same things I do...

I would hope that others more learned would step in and make it more clear
instead it seems that many may know of people but few speak of it or them...at least here...
with this being said....

time for me to chill for a little while....
happy holidays to all ;)


I'm not trying to be mean to you. I seen healing done with energy work. Never any martial.
This master is a martially competent master. At least that's what I heard.
They all say he's very good. Makes me wonder about all this stuff and why he would risk his name on it if
it had no truth to it at all. The guy doesn't strike me as a liar. but his students don't appear to be giving a honest result.
I also have talked to big name taiji players who told me it was true and later they retracted their statements saying it was delusion.
I was also told that this type of magical qigong was lost in Mongolia.
I would have to see it for myself and I don't comply.
https://youtu.be/B2DXdFYDXCk

If you really seen and felt this stuff in a honest non-compliant way, Then I certainly would not care what "no one" said.
Take care
Last edited by willie on Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
willie

 

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