this is not about Aikido

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:18 am

Bodywork wrote:
Marko wrote:At the end, the only thing that matters is what can you do against another man. I want the skills Dan has. I've even promised him that someday I'll kick his ass ;D (not going to happen soon).


Ah Louis: Why don't you, why hasn't he taught and told you, why don't you have the same skills? Why do you use the word someday and not now?


Would you ask the same question if I said I cannot kick Tiger Woods ass in golf after going to his golfing seminars?

No, he wouldn't.
Marco, who would make such a ridiculous, amateurish, assessment about any teacher? Stop and consider what he just said. It's not a rational question or even an attempt at a dialogue. If you read his other comments it tells you where his own standards are.
As understandingOddly did he ask for Corky's and Rich's qualifications to SAY that which I objected to, in the first place? He didn't. Instead, because I object, he wants to know who the hell I am for disagreeing. He openly demonstrates that he expects bona fides to come through rank and affiliation rather than real skills. Or worse, he actually believes rank and affiliation offers real world skills. No experienced budo person thinks this way.

So, there you go.
This isn't intelligent discussion among seasoned people. It's all point scoring in an adolescent, smarmy, internet debate and witch hunt.

________________________

Mr. Louis
I'm really not interested in what you think of my personality or reasons for WHAT I am talking about. If you can, try to summon yourself to an actual discussion of WHAT I am talking about, instead.
While I understand the internet's best defense for lack of any higher level physical skills and understanding is verbal debate and character assassination, its not really that interesting to me. It's understandable that you don't like being corrected. I don't particularly like arguing with students on the internet either. Being right, and knowing what you are doing and talking about, isn't bullying. Its being correct.
Oddly, there is no arguing, or debate.... in person. You need to understand that budo begins and ends with real world skills, not the ridiculous (and artificial) philosopher/warrior construct of anime and Tarentino's hollywood, out of control imagination. If you want to be respected for what you know and can do, then what you know and can do has to have worth. You actually need to possess worthwhile information and vetted skills. Seasoned martial artists didn't really give a shit about your rank, where you came from, or who you hang around with.[/quote]

Mr. Dan.

I really don't approve of anyone taking a Cobra Kai approach to posting. Sorry. My opinion. I find it difficult to have a decent conversation with bullies and combative posters, who employ such manipulative tactics over civil conversation. Yes, real seasoned martial artists do care about a CV. I for one do. It proves am not full of shit. For me, I can't bullshit and lie to people. It shows I have put the effort in and paid the dues, and am recognized for it. It shows I was judged and evaluated by a group of people by standards previously meeting those standards. And it states standards that should be maintained. I can comfortably tell people in confidence what I study and from whom. A CV tells people am not a fraud. Because of that, I don't need to go around telling people who have qualifications that suck, and don't know what they are talking about. In no way in hell will I ever have to convince anyone of what I learned and where I learned it. And sure in hell it will not be questioned its legitimacy, because I have proof, because my knowledge and myself are qualified.
Ah Louis

 

Re: Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:19 am

Bodywork wrote:
Marko wrote:Jaimie writes: At the end, the only thing that matters is what can you do against another man. I want the skills Dan has. I've even promised him that someday I'll kick his ass ;D (not going to happen soon).

Ah Louis response Why don't you, why hasn't he taught and told you, why don't you have the same skills? Why do you use the word someday and not now?

Marco writes : Would you ask the same question if I said I cannot kick Tiger Woods ass in golf after going to his golfing seminars?

No, he wouldn't.
Marco, of course this is a ridiculous, assessment about any teacher? It's not a rational question or even an attempt at a dialogue.
As Mark noted: did he ask for Corky's and Rich's qualifications to SAY that which I objected to, in the first place? He didn't. Instead, because I object, he wants to know who the hell I am for disagreeing. He openly demonstrates that he expects bona fides to come through rank and affiliation rather than real skills. Or worse, he apparently, actually believes rank and affiliation offers real world skills. No experienced budo person I ever met thinks this way.

So, there you go.
This isn't intelligent discussion among seasoned people. It's all point scoring in an adolescent, smarmy, internet debate and witch hunt.
________________________

Mr. Louis
I'm really not interested in what you think of my personality or reasons for WHAT I am talking about. If you can, try to summon yourself to an actual discussion of WHAT I am talking about, instead.
While I understand the internet's best defense for lack of any higher level physical skills and understanding is verbal debate and character assassination, its not really that interesting to me. It's understandable that you don't like being corrected. I don't particularly like arguing with students on the internet either. Being right, and knowing what you are doing and talking about, isn't bullying. Its being correct.
Oddly, there is no arguing, or debate.... in person with the people I meet.
You need to understand that budo begins and ends with real world skills, not the ridiculous (and artificial) philosopher/warrior construct of anime and Tarentino's hollywood, out of control imagination. If you want to be respected for what you know and can do, then what you know and can do has to have worth. You actually need to possess worthwhile information and vetted skills. Seasoned martial artists don't really give a shit about your rank, where you came from, or who you hang around with. They care about what you can do and teach. Which is why they come to me in the first place.

If you actually have something of value to add related to the subject, please offer it.


Mr. Dan.

I really don't approve of anyone taking a Cobra Kai approach to posting. Sorry. My opinion. I find it difficult to have a decent conversation with bullies and combative posters, who employ such manipulative tactics over civil conversation.

Yes, real seasoned martial artists do care about a CV. I for one do. It proves am not full of shit. For me, I can't bullshit and lie to people. It shows I have put the effort in and paid the dues, and am recognized for it. It shows I was judged and evaluated by a group of people by standards previously meeting those standards. And it states standards that should be maintained. I can comfortably tell people in confidence what I study and from whom.

A CV tells people am not a fraud. Because of that, I don't need to go around telling people who have qualifications they suck, and don't know what they are talking about. In no way in hell will I ever have to convince anyone of what I learned and where I learned it. And sure in hell it will not be questioned its legitimacy, because I have proof, because my knowledge and myself are qualified.
Last edited by Ah Louis on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:21 am

Ah Louis wrote:Another thing and a separate note. I was told by someone else many Daito ryu members and students find Dan offensive and refute Dan's claims, years ago when he was claiming Daito ryu skills. It was all over the net at the time in many boards. The biggest board with the most fighting was on E-budo between Dan and those who where legitimate major students of Daito ryu on E-budo. Much of that discussion has been erased now. Some of it done in protest against Dan. Because he was making many inaccurate and incorrect claims about Daito ryu in reference to himself and Daito ryu skill. Dan has been kicked off E-budo several times, and many other boards too. All for his misrepresentation and his posting style. WOW! that sure says allot.

Internet banter SAYS ALLOT??
In what world?
Is this all you have? Insulting me rather than talking about substance.
1. Your allegations are not true.
2. You don't deserve to know the fall out and what happened. There are hundreds of people who now know that (as I stated on aikiweb and ebudo) several of those men had to apologize to me for those comments. Much was erased because many senior people who train with me objected to the content. Particularly after the apologies. The ramifications of some of their behavior has been humorous and also quite beneficial to me. And several of them now train with me.
And I have never in my life made an inaccurate comment about what I do or where I came from.
Last edited by Bodywork on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork

 

Re: Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:32 am

Bodywork wrote:
Ah Louis wrote:Another thing and a separate note. I was told by someone else many Daito ryu members and students find Dan offensive and refute Dan's claims, years ago when he was claiming Daito ryu skills. It was all over the net at the time in many boards. The biggest board with the most fighting was on E-budo between Dan and those who where legitimate major students of Daito ryu on E-budo. Much of that discussion has been erased now. Some of it done in protest against Dan. Because he was making many inaccurate and incorrect claims about Daito ryu in reference to himself and Daito ryu skill. Dan has been kicked off E-budo several times, and many other boards too. All for his misrepresentation and his posting style. WOW! that sure says allot.

Internet banter SAYS ALLOT??
What are you twelve?
Is this all you have? Insulting me rather than talking about substance.
1. This is not true.
2. You don't deserve to know the fall out and what happened. There are hundreds of people who now know that (as I stated on aikiweb and ebudo) several of those men had to apologize to me for those comments. Much was erased because many senior people who train with me objected to the content. Particularly after the apologies. And I have never in my life made an inaccurate comment about what I do or where I came from.


Nice try. But you need proof like documentation or the organization to stand by your claims to add any credence to where your skills come from. You are allowing people to say you have training in an art. State it yourself. Show the proof if you have it, if you don't say so. Simple. :)
Last edited by Ah Louis on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:37 am

Ah Louis wrote:
Bodywork wrote:
Marko wrote:Jaimie writes: At the end, the only thing that matters is what can you do against another man. I want the skills Dan has. I've even promised him that someday I'll kick his ass ;D (not going to happen soon).

Ah Louis response Why don't you, why hasn't he taught and told you, why don't you have the same skills? Why do you use the word someday and not now?

Marco writes : Would you ask the same question if I said I cannot kick Tiger Woods ass in golf after going to his golfing seminars?

No, he wouldn't.
Marco, of course this is a ridiculous, assessment about any teacher? It's not a rational question or even an attempt at a dialogue.
As Mark noted: did he ask for Corky's and Rich's qualifications to SAY that which I objected to, in the first place? He didn't. Instead, because I object, he wants to know who the hell I am for disagreeing. He openly demonstrates that he expects bona fides to come through rank and affiliation rather than real skills. Or worse, he apparently, actually believes rank and affiliation offers real world skills. No experienced budo person I ever met thinks this way.

So, there you go.
This isn't intelligent discussion among seasoned people. It's all point scoring in an adolescent, smarmy, internet debate and witch hunt.
________________________

Mr. Louis
I'm really not interested in what you think of my personality or reasons for WHAT I am talking about. If you can, try to summon yourself to an actual discussion of WHAT I am talking about, instead.
While I understand the internet's best defense for lack of any higher level physical skills and understanding is verbal debate and character assassination, its not really that interesting to me. It's understandable that you don't like being corrected. I don't particularly like arguing with students on the internet either. Being right, and knowing what you are doing and talking about, isn't bullying. Its being correct.
Oddly, there is no arguing, or debate.... in person with the people I meet.
You need to understand that budo begins and ends with real world skills, not the ridiculous (and artificial) philosopher/warrior construct of anime and Tarentino's hollywood, out of control imagination. If you want to be respected for what you know and can do, then what you know and can do has to have worth. You actually need to possess worthwhile information and vetted skills. Seasoned martial artists don't really give a shit about your rank, where you came from, or who you hang around with. They care about what you can do and teach. Which is why they come to me in the first place.

If you actually have something of value to add related to the subject, please offer it.


Mr. Dan.

I really don't approve of anyone taking a Cobra Kai approach to posting. Sorry. My opinion. I find it difficult to have a decent conversation with bullies and combative posters, who employ such manipulative tactics over civil conversation.

Yes, real seasoned martial artists do care about a CV. I for one do. It proves am not full of shit. For me, I can't bullshit and lie to people. It shows I have put the effort in and paid the dues, and am recognized for it. It shows I was judged and evaluated by a group of people by standards previously meeting those standards. And it states standards that should be maintained. I can comfortably tell people in confidence what I study and from whom.

A CV tells people am not a fraud. Because of that, I don't need to go around telling people who have qualifications that suck, and don't know what they are talking about. In no way in hell will I ever have to convince anyone of what I learned and where I learned it. And sure in hell it will not be questioned its legitimacy, because I have proof, because my knowledge and myself are qualified.

I am happy for you that you like your rank and the rank of those who gave it to you And...it means you are not *full of shit* by their standards. Good for you. It's a start.
I never said there was anything wrong with that. It's just relatively meaningless.
I have hundreds of those types of senior teachers who gave those ranks, who train under me. One Shihan with 44 years in under world famous teachers calls this...graduate school for teachers.
I think I'll tell him he mistakenly enrolled in the cobra Kai. I had to look that up. It does help me know who I am talking to and their budo references.
Last edited by Bodywork on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork

 

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:43 am

Ah Louis wrote:
Nice try. But you need proof like documentation or the organization to stand by your claims to add any credence to where your skills come from. You are allowing people to say you have training in an art. State it yourself. Show the proof if you have it, if you don't say so. Simple. :)

No, actually I don't need do anything. And I prefer it that you and many like you think like you do. It makes the look on your faces when you find out the truth that much more humorous and your respect for the way I handled it without throwing the reputations of teachers who attacked me under the bus. It's not often you see a guy like me vilified without defending myself and then a world famous teacher have his wife find out and tell him... "I just found out what you said about Dan. You are not sleeping in this bed till you aplogize to Dan."
Now, we are friends. This stuff is rich and pithy.
Only you.. and others who think like you, think your collective opinion matters at all.
Last edited by Bodywork on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
Bodywork

 

Re: Aikido

Postby Dmitri on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:35 pm

Ah Louis wrote:But you need proof like documentation or the organization to stand by your claims to add any credence to where your skills come from. You are allowing people to say you have training in an art. State it yourself. Show the proof if you have it, if you don't say so. Simple. :)


;D

Yah. Simple indeed. Dead WRONG though.

I've seen enough "masters" who couldn't do shit (once you touched hands) and enough of the opposite (folks nobody knows about who have great skills) to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong if you think a certification, a lineage, who or where you studied with, or anything else of the sort matters in the slightest.


"to add any credence to where your skills come from" -- so... the skills are there, but that's not important and has no credence -- unless you have documentation on where they came from? Did I get that right? :D
Last edited by Dmitri on Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Spncr on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:11 pm

Ah Louis wrote:Yes, real seasoned martial artists do care about a CV. I for one do. It proves am not full of shit. For me, I can't bullshit and lie to people. It shows I have put the effort in and paid the dues, and am recognized for it. A CV tells people am not a fraud. And sure in hell it will not be questioned its legitimacy, because I have proof, because my knowledge and myself are qualified.


I see no proof that you aren't full of shit, quite the opposite actually. You may have put in effort and paid dues to somebody, but personally I could care less. I have met a lot of high ranking martial artists, IME for the most part the ones who bring up their rank or CV aren't all that impressive. Literally out of my top 5 picks for best MAists I've met, none of them talk about rank or wear a belt or any BS like that (and most of them often remind people that rank and CV etc are just superficial.) Truth be told I would say 99% of all the martial artists I've ever met have been full of shit, Dan is not in that category.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Spncr on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:12 pm

Ah Louis wrote:Yes, real seasoned martial artists do care about a CV. I for one do. It proves am not full of shit. For me, I can't bullshit and lie to people. It shows I have put the effort in and paid the dues, and am recognized for it. A CV tells people am not a fraud. And sure in hell it will not be questioned its legitimacy, because I have proof, because my knowledge and myself are qualified.


I see no proof that you aren't full of shit, quite the opposite actually. You may have put in effort and paid dues to somebody, but personally I could care less. I have met a lot of high ranking martial artists, IME for the most part the ones who bring up their rank or CV aren't all that impressive. Literally out of my top 5 picks for best MAists I've met, none of them talk about rank or wear a belt or any BS like that (and most of them often remind people that rank and CV etc are just superficial.) Truth be told I would say 99% of all the martial artists I've ever met have been full of shit, Dan is not in that category.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Greg J on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:22 pm

Here you go guys...



Let the healing begin!

Now, back to Aikido...this video resonates with me. I like that Sensei Azu acknowledges the reality a violent attack, and advocates responding in a realistic manner that is still true to the spirit of Aikido. Or...the spirit of Aikido as I understand it, lol (in this case, ending the confrontation quickly while doing as little harm as possible).



Thoughts?

Best,
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Re: Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:38 pm

Spncr wrote:
Ah Louis wrote:Yes, real seasoned martial artists do care about a CV. I for one do. It proves am not full of shit. For me, I can't bullshit and lie to people. It shows I have put the effort in and paid the dues, and am recognized for it. A CV tells people am not a fraud. And sure in hell it will not be questioned its legitimacy, because I have proof, because my knowledge and myself are qualified.


I see no proof that you aren't full of shit, quite the opposite actually. You may have put in effort and paid dues to somebody, but personally I could care less. I have met a lot of high ranking martial artists, IME for the most part the ones who bring up their rank or CV aren't all that impressive. Literally out of my top 5 picks for best MAists I've met, none of them talk about rank or wear a belt or any BS like that (and most of them often remind people that rank and CV etc are just superficial.) Truth be told I would say 99% of all the martial artists I've ever met have been full of shit, Dan is not in that category.


Excuse me, but I was talking to Dan. I have asked him about his martial arts CV (teachers, styles etc.) in order to qualify/justify his demeaning posting style. He has not provided me with any of that information. In my quote, I am explaining why a marital arts CV is important, and why it is to the martial arts. Simply, because it combats fraudulent martial artist, and those who lie about who trained them. I never said or implied Dan was a fraud or a lair.

I would be very interested in who taught him naginata? He has a video clip that is titled naginata. I don't know why such information is so protected and guarded, and very hard to get, if at all. Why some people are so strongly adamant and defensive about giving it, confuses me.

I will end it here. Some people want to talk Aikido. I will respect their wish. Dan, you can PM me the information.
Last edited by Ah Louis on Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:48 pm

Oh wait.. Its a tuesday, and someone on the internet is calling me out?
I thought it was wed. Oh well SSDD.

PM you a CV of my martial career?
Why?
For YOU... To vet me?
You might want to start by re-reading what I do for a living and with who? Then ... Send me your CV that even remotely compares with them.
1. I don't care about their ranks
2. I don't care about yours
3. I don't care about mine.
What I do care about is what I can do with this body. And what I can teach to the thousands of students and teachers who have trained with me.
Last edited by Bodywork on Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Finny on Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:54 pm

Ah Louis - you're far more likely to get a decent answer with honey, rather than vinegar.. if I may strain the metaphor

Dan also has a background in Tenshin Shoden Katori Shintoryu.

Some teachers are not public, which means their students are unable to be public with their details, while honoring the teacher's wishes. FWIW
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Re: Aikido

Postby Spncr on Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:56 pm

Ah Louis wrote:Excuse me, but I was talking to Dan. I have asked him about his martial arts CV (teachers, styles etc.) in order to qualify/justify his demeaning posting style. He has not provided me with any of that information. In my quote, I am explaining why a marital arts CV is important, and why it is to the martial arts. Simply, because it combats fraudulent martial artist, and those who lie about who trained them. I never said or implied Dan was a fraud or a lair.


For starters, this is a forum so im free to address you, no need to excuse me. Everyone knows what you've asked of him but even if he answered you (which he has 0 obligation to do,) it would not "qualify/justify" anything for most of us here. A CV in MA and skill are not mutually exclusive and having one in no way combats fraudulence.

Ah Louis wrote:I will end it here.


Ok great, thanks.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Bao on Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:25 pm

Ah Louis wrote: I have asked him about his martial arts CV (teachers, styles etc.) in order to qualify/justify his demeaning posting style.


I think a lot of people mistake the tremendous enthusiasm and passion for the art and look at it as a bulldozer. Sometimes things are being said with such a force that people don't know how to handle it. But you can't really blame someone for loving what he does, can you? :)

Finny wrote:Some teachers are not public, which means their students are unable to be public with their details, while honoring the teacher's wishes. FWIW


True. 8-) And some great teachers are just not known to anyone so it would make it pointless with name dropping.
Dude: "Who is your teacher?"
Me: "Just some random guy working at the tax Office "
Dude: "ok"
;D
Last edited by Bao on Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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