this is not about Aikido

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:00 pm

Actually what he said...repeatedly was references to heaven/earth/ man. Among which he said.
"Heaven is not some place outside you. It is within you. Heaven and earth, the two powers."
Then you had his frequent references to ka/mi (fire and water or yn/ yang) which many mistook for the Kami.

The hippies who went to japan as well as the peacenick crowd in Japan, openly admitted that they didn't understand most of his references so they, by and large made up most of the peacenick references. Some of which he openly made fun of. Like the time Terry Dobson heard him yelling at a vegetable vender and was shocked. Ueshiba, well aware of the worshipful tenor of some of these guys, glared at him and said. "What? A saint can't get mad?"

Its no surprise to read more of the same here. Thankfully we have fluent, professional translators, who are well versed in internal nomenclature and methodology now winding their way through his writings and revealing a man using cosmology and known internal concepts to define physical training.
As Chiba said.. " No one could understand him. We couldn't wait for him to shut up so we could train."
Or maybe he said.. "Better to have training right now than the right training later! " ;-)
He might as well join the twenty somethings here. The correct statement should have been- "We were too young and ignorant and had no interest in understanding him."
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Re: Aikido

Postby GrahamB on Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:15 am

Come on Dan - continually playing the victim is getting kind of old. Really, nobody here attacks you - people post stuff, usually about Aikido, on this board, and you attack them for not knowing the real stuff. And the cycle repeats, over and over.

Yeah, you're probably right - they probably don't know what you know. You seem to have some pretty unique material. But nobody is attacking you here. It's the other way around.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:59 am

GrahamB wrote:Come on Dan - continually playing the victim is getting kind of old. Really, nobody here attacks you - people post stuff, usually about Aikido, on this board, and you attack them for not knowing the real stuff. And the cycle repeats, over and over.

Yeah, you're probably right - they probably don't know what you know. You seem to have some pretty unique material. But nobody is attacking you here. It's the other way around.

Playing a victim?
That's your take, not mine. Rich as well as others over the years have continued to support the status quo and doubted the validity of what Ueshiba was actually doing and talking about. This is typical of the narrative that has appeared on RSF, aikiweb, e-budo, really all the internet forums, for two decades now. The readership there was not only ignorant of the internal material in their arts, but decidedly hostile to the very idea. That was... Until they got away from their keyboard's and met people who know and could do. It is not restricted to Aikido, but as Doc pointed out- really all the arts. I can name and discuss details of many other higher level work in Karate, koryu, aikido, Daito ryu and CMA not being understood and demonstrated in the bodies of practitioners around the world. It's ironic that the Japanese admit to doing that which these people deny they are doing.
Anyway....
I am not defending me, but rather the history and pedagogy of this material both in JMA and ICMA.
Last edited by Bodywork on Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:23 am

What the hell...is going on. If there is a joke going on I am missing it.

Bodyworks and why are you hating everyone and attacking anything most anyone says that doesn't follow you?

I tried to find out on your profile page who you trained under, your teachers, your style(s) to understand why your always on the offensive, and came up empty. Your style of aggressive argumentation is reminisce of a well polished conservative political talking head or commentator. You remind me of the likes of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Hart Coulter at the peak of their popularity. I don't understand why you come out swinging and shrouded in mystery, in the shadows. I don't see the cause. Can you help me understand and explain all this aggression and mystery?
Last edited by Ah Louis on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby GrahamB on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:44 am

Image

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Re: Aikido

Postby Rabbit on Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:52 am

Who is Dan's teacher - teachers ?

What line/lines and tradition/ traditions does he emerge and speak from with such authority?
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Re: Aikido

Postby Finny on Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:08 am

Hehehe

Deja vu much??

Why would you guys ask such pointed questions, when all Dan is doing is discussing 'the material'?!?

Wait..
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Re: Aikido

Postby Bao on Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:14 am

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Re: Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:30 am

Ah Louis wrote:What the hell...is going on. If there is a joke going on I am missing it.

Bodyworks and why are you hating everyone and attacking anything most anyone says that doesn't follow you?

I tried to find out on your profile page who you trained under, your teachers, your style(s) to understand why your always on the offensive, and came up empty. Your style of aggressive argumentation is reminisce of a well polished conservative political talking head or commentator. You remind me of the likes of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Hart Coulter at the peak of their popularity. I don't understand why you come out swinging and shrouded in mystery, in the shadows. I don't see the cause. Can you help me understand and explain all this aggression and mystery?


Maybe I need to rephrase not to sound rude.

Bodyworks/Dan(?) you sound so angry and argumentative all the time. You seem to tell other people, in a nutshell, they "suck" at their art, and their art "sucks" why? You are like at odds with everyone except those who are in your crew. I can't say, you are angry with "everyone" which wouldn't be true, but allot of people.

I am making an observation. Your argumentative style of what I read here in strategy and tactics are reminisce of a professional conservative aggressive political talking head or commentator. People who exemplify the style am thinking about are Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Hart Coulter's style at the peak of their popularity. One such tacit of that political argumentation style is to "come out swing," attacking the other guy, and thus their credibility. A tacit I see in your posts.

Is all of this a simple matter of me just misreading your posts? To help me find out, I viewed your profile. It was empty. You are an enigma in this regard. There is no information on your teacher(s) and your style(s). Not having basic information a place so easily accessible adds to the mystery of the why in your strong aggressive posting style, and why?

I hope you don't think my observations and asking for information are unreasonable. I am reading this thread, and if I am to give your opinion any credibility I need information about you.
Last edited by Ah Louis on Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Dmitri on Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:55 am

Greg J wrote:Doesn't matter if someone has been here one month, or one decade. If they have a legit question they should feel free to ask. Mocking them brings everyone down.

IMHO it does make a small but noticeable difference. No problem with asking questions -- it's how they do it is what matters... RSF has been compared to a bar numerous times, and some of the dynamics are indeed similar. Some random guy walking into a bar one night and starting to use a bit of a "tone" with some others who have known each other for perhaps many years, is likely to be "questioned" back (or worse, depending on the neighborhood the bar is in), and I don't see how a little mocking along those lines would bring everyone down... Just one guy -- if even that. :)

A response to such "mocking" will typically help see what they're made of, and that way everyone gets to know each other a bit better.

Ah Louis seems to have responded quite well, looking back at his earlier post and rephrasing it in a calmer and much more reasonable and non-confrontational manner. Good on him.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:02 pm

If anyone was wondering, I have clicked the webpage link in Bodywork's sig-line. For me, it was really vague and confusing and not much help. For example, there is no history or background from where the methods taught come from, and who really is teaching them. There are other things that make the page vague like a secret or private fraternity thing, where those only in the fraternity know. That is the feel I get anyway.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:37 pm

Ah Louis wrote:
Ah Louis wrote:What the hell...is going on. If there is a joke going on I am missing it.

Bodyworks and why are you hating everyone and attacking anything most anyone says that doesn't follow you?

I tried to find out on your profile page who you trained under, your teachers, your style(s) to understand why your always on the offensive, and came up empty. Your style of aggressive argumentation is reminisce of a well polished conservative political talking head or commentator. You remind me of the likes of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Hart Coulter at the peak of their popularity. I don't understand why you come out swinging and shrouded in mystery, in the shadows. I don't see the cause. Can you help me understand and explain all this aggression and mystery?


Maybe I need to rephrase not to sound rude.

Bodyworks/Dan(?) you sound so angry and argumentative all the time. You seem to tell other people, in a nutshell, they "suck" at their art, and their art "sucks" why? You are like at odds with everyone except those who are in your crew. I can't say, you are angry with "everyone" which wouldn't be true, but allot of people.

I am making an observation. Your argumentative style of what I read here in strategy and tactics are reminisce of a professional conservative aggressive political talking head or commentator. People who exemplify the style am thinking about are Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Hart Coulter's style at the peak of their popularity. One such tacit of that political argumentation style is to "come out swing," attacking the other guy, and thus their credibility. A tacit I see in your posts.

Is all of this a simple matter of me just misreading your posts? To help me find out, I viewed your profile. It was empty. You are an enigma in this regard. There is no information on your teacher(s) and your style(s). Not having basic information a place so easily accessible adds to the mystery of the why in your strong aggressive posting style, and why?

I hope you don't think my observations and asking for information are unreasonable. I am reading this thread, and if I am to give your opinion any credibility I need information about you.

Calling bullshit is not being angry. And as Dmitri apply noted RSF had often been compared to a bar where calling bullshit on something is the rule of the day. And it is a place where I have held my own quite well and quite often.
You made many errors in your questioning.
1. I am not angry at anyone
2. I call bullshit on those where it applies.
3. That leaves most everyone else out of the discussion
4. Equating me with the tenor of various right wing television personalities is productive just how?
Now my turn
1. Did I discuss anyone's personality?
2. Have I ever expressed any interest in their affiliations or rank?
3. I address people where they stand, and what they know and can do with.....their own two hands.

You should try it. It is quite refreshing to have to explain and demonstrate what you know on those who actually *do know* what they know quite well and in some cases are expert at it, and are challenging the veracity of both your knowledge and skil in front of rooms full of people. Then
Have to teach.
Warning* it isn't pleasant but you get used to it. And you might find its good for you... and for them.
I found it has made me thousands of friends around the world. You? Maybe won't do as well but give it a shot.

Last, as for my authority? Since you seen to like rank and lineage for authority.
As I said, I stand in rooms around the world with thousands of people explaining and showing what I know and can do. Maybe these people know the value of certain material.

22 Shihan, (the real kind. You know, the ones who took 40 years to earn it)
nine 6th dans,
Fifty nine, 5th dans
And so many lessor ranks I lost count
Two of the highest ranked western Daito ryu practitioners in the world.
Two international karate organization that now make training with me mandatory for their teachers
Dozens of koryu practitioners
World champion bjjers as well as local practitioners
Former Olympic Greco Roman wrestlers from Greece
American wrestlers
So many ICMA people I lost count
And now several systema teachers and dozens of practitioners.
All come and learn in open rooms.
And...in those rooms?
I never go on about me, or discuss lineage. They don't give a shit and neither do I. They want the material that THEY, HAVE DETERMINED is helping them..

"Never look to authority for truth.
Look to truth, for authority."
Last edited by Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aikido

Postby jaime_g on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:51 pm

To people asking for Dan's background: Guys, your research skills suck a lot. There is a ton of info in the net about it (not all of course). I already knew a lot before meeting him. Know what? I didnt care before, now I care even less. Dan's background is impressive, but I have met a lot of guys with impressive backgrounds that were a shit as teachers. Dan has done the work, knows how to teach it, and wants to share it. Enough for me.

Dont be confused by the writting style. Dan has a lovely personality, nice man, warm smiles, terrible jokes.
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Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:54 pm

jaime_g wrote:
Dont be confused by the writting style. Dan has a lovely personality, nice man, warm smiles, terrible jokes.

Took me years to understand the difference between people laughing at me and not *with* me. And all this time, here I was thinking I was funny!! :-[ ;D
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Re: Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:09 pm

Dmitri wrote:
Greg J wrote:Doesn't matter if someone has been here one month, or one decade. If they have a legit question they should feel free to ask. Mocking them brings everyone down.

IMHO it does make a small but noticeable difference. No problem with asking questions -- it's how they do it is what matters... RSF has been compared to a bar numerous times, and some of the dynamics are indeed similar. Some random guy walking into a bar one night and starting to use a bit of a "tone" with some others who have known each other for perhaps many years, is likely to be "questioned" back (or worse, depending on the neighborhood the bar is in), and I don't see how a little mocking along those lines would bring everyone down... Just one guy -- if even that. :)

A response to such "mocking" will typically help see what they're made of, and that way everyone gets to know each other a bit better.

Ah Louis seems to have responded quite well, looking back at his earlier post and rephrasing it in a calmer and much more reasonable and non-confrontational manner. Good on him.



Thank you Dmitri for your support, but it isn't needed now. Even though I understand you don't at all tolerate the posting style of Bodyworks/Dan. You don't like any poster even using "a bit of tone with others." My initial tone (not mocking anyone) then is inline with what you call, "mocking." For the purpose to "help sees what someone is made of so we get to know each other a bit better." I wanted to know more about Bodyworks to get a better context and understanding of his "bit of tone." And, I appreciate, as you said, you appreciating a calmer, reasonable and non-confrontational manner. Unfortunately, Bodyworks is at a disadvantage with his handicap (golf), or if you don't get that public official decree...well its hard. Which explains his style of posting being in a way you don't like. Sorry Bodyworks to talk around you.

Thank you.
Last edited by Ah Louis on Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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