this is not about Aikido

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

this is not about Aikido

Postby Spncr on Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:15 pm

Ah Louis wrote:
Finny wrote:Some teachers are not public, which means their students are unable to be public with their details, while honoring the teacher's wishes. FWIW


If you are going to do public seminars and post them on the net, why would you be private with your training background?


Do you even read?! Try it before you start asking questions that have been already answered again, and perhaps the next thread you participate in will be spared from BTDT.
Last edited by Spncr on Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Spncr
Huajing
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:58 pm

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:46 pm

Ah Louis wrote:
Finny wrote:Ah Louis - you're far more likely to get a decent answer with honey, rather than vinegar.. if I may strain the metaphor

Dan also has a background in Tenshin Shoden Katori Shintoryu.

Some teachers are not public, which means their students are unable to be public with their details, while honoring the teacher's wishes. FWIW


Some of you suggested I do a Google search on Dan to get his background. I did, and this is what I came up with. Now if anyone one wants to provide me anyother links, I will look at them. There is nothing on Dan's webpage about his training background. Here are the links I found so far.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthrea ... 287&page=8
The only thing I found on Tenshin Shoden Katori Shintoryu is here related to Dan. But there is no mention of him training or ranked in Tenshin Shoden Katori Shintoryu. For the Daito ryu is the only thing I found. Let me add to that I was told from a Daito ryu admin official they have no records of membership or ranking of Dan in Daito ryu. Anymore info would be appreciated. I am only looking at facts of his training.

http://esotericorange.com/yoseishin/aik ... ackground/
This is from Mr. Orange's CV. I don't know Mr. Orange, he came up in the search.
"Dan Harden with background in the Horikawa line."

Dan, what is the Horikawa line?

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums ... p?t=100732
And this also came up in the search, but it gives no background training on Dan. It too asks about his background.


This is what is on the net besides lots of advertising for seminars over the years on a many other boards, I found so far. If you are going to do public seminars and post them on the net, why would you be private with your training background? I am open to Dan telling me what his training background (a.k.a CV). I don't see why I should chase it down on the net? I think he would be proud of his training, he is proud of what he teaches. :)

So far you have printed lies
Listened to lies
Re-quoted more lies
And have reduced yourself to no more than a teenage gossip.
Why haven't you mentioned the latter apologies from many of those threads?
You also missed aikiweb; there is a treasure trove of shit talk about me there: con man, snake oil salesman, fraid. Dude! Didn't miss out! Run on over.
I am sure that you will accidentally miss those apologese as well as every, single, testimony of those who ACTUALLY met me.
Hurry now. There is a guy like you there: jim Sorrentino. Look for good own thread "An opdeen invitation to Dan Harden " try to follow along and read three years of harassing me about my CV over three forums and calling me out as fraud.
Read to the very end. It will tell you where your shit talk is heading. There are hundreds of guys who all know the teachers involved, the incredible embarrassment it caused them, one almost being fired. And it will teach YOU about teachers with great CV's lying. We? We were already sitting at a dinner table laughing our asses off at your expense, in Hawaii, but hey, we deserve some fun with you.
Now.. Last... Pay attention to my responses over the years as I am lied to and lied about. See how I reacted then, as now.
Make sure since your are quoting.
I expect to read one of the only Daito ryu mokuroku holders in the west staging I have the finest skills he has ever witnessed in and out of Japan, BAR NONE.
Make sure now that we all are your research showing all the teachers AND THEIR CV's and why they chose to train under me.
Run along now.

I don't care so much for e-budo I had zero respect for the former mods and even less for the current ones. Two in particular. One I consider a coward who cares more for their own position than seriously owed giri. But few peeled have substance any more.
_____________________________

So now, since according to your sources, I'm a nobody from nowhere who trained in nothing,.
Now, finish your research young man.
Experience in the field is something on every CV. And yourself said this:
Ah Louis wrote:
Isn't that the bottom line? If you tested it in the field and had positive results? That is experience isn't it, and hard to argue that. Sure people can throw mud or heckle the art, but if it saved your butt, it did its job. What more needs to be said.

Now defend your statement as Mark asked you to.
Please tell us who I teach?
Careful now there are maybe a hundred or so of them here who have borne witness to many things.
Many of the teachers and students I mention below are in photos with me as their teacher all over my face book page. While I don't consider myself as their teacher it proves a point. They have also written about me.

Ready? Here we go. I don't get to reveal this that often, so thank you for this as well.

Aikido
Why are 22 aikido shihan
9 sixth dans
Over 60 5th dans
And I lost track of 4 th dans and below training under me?
Please explain____________?

Daito ryu
Why are some of the only western ranked Daito ryu teachers as well as many students training under me?
I am doing a publicly advertised seminar at his dojo in Feb.
Please explain_____________?

Karate
Why are two karate organizations, one out of Japan, one western modifying their systems on my material and making training under me mandatory to retain teaching status?
Please explain_____________?

Koryu
Why are so many koryu people coming to train from Japan and all over Europe?
Why did Menkyo ask me to critique his entire curriculum?
Explain__________________?

Bjj
Two world champions and dozens of people ranked in bjj
Explain___________________?

ICMA
Teachers and students with years in in Taiji, bagua, Xing-I

The medical field
Over 20 Docs
6 chiropractors
Dozens of bodyworkers, acupuncturist folders. Etc.

Try to at least pretend to be credible. It is impossible to lie about having this many publicly known people coming together in rooms all over the world, and having their picture taken.
So you have a serious credibility issue.
Ready?
Why are they coming_________________?
You, have to expose that truth whilst trying to claim me a liar.
And thank you. Since you also claim I'm all about seminars, you need to recognize stuff like this helps me tremendously. Why?
Because in fact, I don't lie and I am a gentleman and I am incredibly loyal to teachers family and friends.. And you?
You are a being played by others as their fool. But thanks anyway, I'm booked into 2017 but there is always 2018.
Last edited by Bodywork on Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:04 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Bodywork

 

Re: Aikido

Postby Bodywork on Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:53 pm

Spncr wrote:
Ah Louis wrote:
Finny wrote:Some teachers are not public, which means their students are unable to be public with their details, while honoring the teacher's wishes. FWIW


If you are going to do public seminars and post them on the net, why would you be private with your training background?


Do you even read?! Try it before you start asking questions that have been already answered again, and perhaps the next thread you participate in will be spared from BTDT.

Spencer
He has no interest. Meaning zero, in either being honest, fair, or accurate. This....is a character assassination.
We have to stop looking for rational responses. He is case building.
He feels insulted. He wants to feel good about the ranks he holds as showing value and those offering them to him, as experts in their field.. So follow his lead.
If.....
They ARE important..
Let's ask Mr. CV to explain all the shihans coming to me?

You don't care, I don't care, all the people I know holding the ranks don't care, but this poor kid does. So, let's feed him his own words.
He wanted us to greatly value the panel of teachers who gave him his rank. .so, why are senior teachers from so many arts from all over... choosing to train with me?
Let Mr. CV explain it.
Last edited by Bodywork on Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bodywork

 

Re: Aikido

Postby Marko on Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:12 pm

FWIW, my own experience with Dan is as follows.

When Dan's posts first drew my attention I did read all those threads, and more. Then I read on Sigman and Akuzawa as well, simply because they are often mentioned in the threads in the same context of having IS. After so much reading, I had a clue as to what Dan had trained over the years, but more than that, what made up my mind about writing to him and asking to attend a seminar, were all the meeting Dan Harden accounts from various people, many of whom had previously, over the years said he was talking shit, but who were now saying unanimously that he could do all that he had claimed and that they were wrong. I thought that was uncommon to say the least.

I'm glad that I did go to the seminar. What I got there was very clear instructions, an honest, self deprecating guy who cared for the material and for his students getting it. As I said, even before meeting him I didn't much care for his masters (in all honesty, I thought, I probably wouldn't know who they were). After meeting him, I knew that I would train with him even if he never had a day of formal training in any martial art, and if he simply made up what he got. I know that he didn't but that really doesn't factor in my decisions. What does matter is what he teaches, that he wants to teach it and that he knows how to teach it. Everything else, for me personally, is garnish. YMMV.
Marko
Anjing
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby chimerical tortoise on Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:24 pm

Ah Louis - at risk of serious repetition (and maybe an innovative take on Gladwin's 10,000 astroturf), I can attest to having met Dan in Seattle about a year or two ago. I join what I think appears to be a large enough group on RSF that is well aware that Dan has attained remarkable skills in the martial arts.

I have no background in Aikido or any Japanese martial art beyond a few introductory lessons in Iai a long time ago. But I do believe that there is something to be said for meeting somebody and forming your own opinion before you speak. It does not seem like you have met Dan before. So why not give it a try instead? It isn't like he's hard to find - and I should hope that you are capable of changing your mind.
chimerical tortoise
Huajing
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:31 pm

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:37 pm

What a hoot some of the posts on this thread have been! ::)

My primary teacher told me that every martial artist of any style holds a certificate in both hands. You are either capable of applying your preferred style in actual real life fighting confrontations or you are not. This is the reality of such situations, regardless of your style, rank or length of training experience. Period.

If you have a formal certificate which says that you are a master, but you can't realistically fight your way out of a wet paper bag, the certificate is essentially worthless and represents little more than a delusional source of continual personal embarrassment. :-[

If you actually possess tested fighting skills, nobody really cares about or needs to see a formal certificate stating that you're the real deal. Your hands can do the talking and others will quickly make the correct conclusions. It won't be necessary to convince them with a certificate. 8-)

In my own personal experience, I have acquired a sizable collection of formal rank certificates over the past 55 years of martial arts study and training, but I have NEVER framed and displayed a single one of them, not even during the many years of owning and operating a martial art school, and I never will. I am quite content to simply let my hands continue to do the talking! -shrug-
Last edited by Doc Stier on Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"First in the Mind and then in the Body."
User avatar
Doc Stier
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4877
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:04 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:49 pm

I get this feeling Dan you really, really, REALLY don't want to answer my questions of who trained you, what styles you trained in. Are taking it to your grave?

I asked you to give your martial arts training background to help with the context of your posts, whose your teachers and what style did you learn, what if any grades, certificates, or license. Nothing unreasonable. I am not asking you for you CC number. I am asking for reasonable info, common to martial arts and other fields. I have asked hundreds of people the same question and never gotten such a blowback (political definition) as from you and yours to this handshake simple question. I am still waiting on the info.

I was told by one of you people to do a google search, and I will find the info. I did a Google search, and nothing came up on your marital arts training background. There is nothing on your webpage as of Dec 8,2015.

But my search results did came up with other info related to you. Hey, I found it. Didn't write it. It seems hundreds of people have been asking this info from you for decades, and yet you won't tell them. Am just saying. ( yes am over exaggerating when I say hundreds and say decades )

I also got a lead. I followed that lead and contacted the Daito ryu organization about your training because you refer your skill to it the net on forums regarding Daito ryu. The answer I got is no record of you being a member or ranked. If you have proof otherwise I will easily take that.

I have found no info on the net that you trained in Tenshin Shoden Katori Shintoryu, so if you have proof of teacher and grade, I would be privileged to see it.

I asked to be directed to links to your training background. No one from you or your camp as of yet has provided any links to your training background.

YouTube as of Dec 7th had a video of you titled naginata implying you are showing naginata skills. I asked where you learned naginata and from whom. You haven't provided that info either. I ask again because I might know your teacher. Or maybe the person who put out the video incorrectly labeled it. [sigh]

If your going to be hating on people, telling them they suck, and what they do sucks, you have to have your house in order, bra. I not busting on you. It is all about context. You say Aikido sucks, did you do Aikido? It seems you didn't, but you say you hang with some Aikido guys. I had to do a net search and came up with Bill Gleason, and Chris Li. Saying you trained with these guys, who have CV, it gives context to you telling Rich he sucks. You could have just said I hang with Bill Gleason and Chris Li, that is where I get my Aikido info from. Instead of all this mess.
Last edited by Ah Louis on Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby Finny on Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:45 pm

Do you actually read the posts in this thread, Louis?

You asked what his background is - in a fairly confrontational way. Ok, he has a habit of being.. uh.. brusque.. so that's not the end of the world.

But people have given you clear answers to your questions. He doesn't owe you any explanation or information

As I pointed out - there are times when teachers are NOT open to the public. In order to honour their wishes therefore, the student cannot name drop.

Further - that the teacher is not public with his/her teaching also obviously means.. you wouldn't know their fucking name anyway - so what would it matter?

One of those threads you linked mentioned Dan's Daitoryu teacher. You clearly know which line of DR that is. Dan obviously is not using/mentioning/making public any rank from this group. So all you need to know is that this is (maybe, mostly) where his DR knowledge comes from.

Google can easily lead you to posts by Dan mentioning that he learned TSKSR from a Japanese expat stuck in the states who taught him so as to have a training partner. Not a publicly known teacher - see above. I believe he later got in touch with other, well known teachers. You don't seem to know much about the koryu, so I'll let you know - most teachers are quite private, and students take oaths of secrecy.. which they tend to value more than any demands for information made by some nobody online..

Further - you would be well served to re-read Tom's express warning in the video links aikido thread, and take it to heart if you want to remain a member here..
Last edited by Finny on Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Finny
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby Finny on Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:56 pm

Ah Louis wrote:
You say Aikido sucks, did you do Aikido? It seems you didn't, but you say you hang with some Aikido guys. I had to do a net search and came up with Bill Gleason, and Chris Li. Saying you trained with these guys, who have CV, it gives context to you telling Rich he sucks. You could have just said I hang with Bill Gleason and Chris Li, that is where I get my Aikido info from. Instead of all this mess.



I'm beginning to wonder if you are in fact just a troll, as Dan has concluded.

1. Not everyone who has replied to you are 'his people'. Many are just long term RSFers who have the information you claim to be interested in

2. The net search you say you did would have inevitably said - as Dan did; Mssrs Gleason and Li learn from Dan - perhaps you could have contacted them and asked for their opinions on what Dan has to offer, as you seem to respect their 'cv's'. As it stands I imagine you've probably squandered that opportunity.

Like I tried to tell you, honey, not vinegar..
User avatar
Finny
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby Ah Louis on Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:07 pm

I PM Tom, just now. Am leaving this board. If I can't get simple information from a person (Dan) who can freely bully and intimidate others, telling them they suck and what the do sucks. Then refusing to provide asked information, and instead he and his friends respond in an emotional over reacting brash and abusive manner attacking me, calling me a liar, a troll and other ugly things which seems to be his MO, then this place isn't for me. I conducted myself well, you will not find the same abusive language and insults from me. I didn't ever call Dan a liar, fraud, told him he sucks and what he does sucks. I didn't flame him or bait him, which is what tolls do. Though I was flamed and baited, or trolled to get an emotional response. That all confuses me. Anyhow.

With that said, I have no interest in staying and I will leave your group to your business.
Last edited by Ah Louis on Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ah Louis

 

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby Finny on Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:13 pm

You have misinterpreted and mischaracterised several things there, but that's your right I suppose

All the best
User avatar
Finny
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1383
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby emptycloud on Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:38 am

Ah Louis wrote:I get this feeling Dan you really, really, REALLY don't want to answer my questions of who trained you, what styles you trained in. Are taking it to your grave?

I asked you to give your martial arts training background to help with the context of your posts, whose your teachers and what style did you learn, what if any grades, certificates, or license. Nothing unreasonable. I am not asking you for you CC number. I am asking for reasonable info, common to martial arts and other fields. I have asked hundreds of people the same question and never gotten such a blowback (political definition) as from you and yours to this handshake simple question. I am still waiting on the info.

I was told by one of you people to do a google search, and I will find the info. I did a Google search, and nothing came up on your marital arts training background. There is nothing on your webpage as of Dec 8,2015.

But my search results did came up with other info related to you. Hey, I found it. Didn't write it. It seems hundreds of people have been asking this info from you for decades, and yet you won't tell them. Am just saying. ( yes am over exaggerating when I say hundreds and say decades )

I also got a lead. I followed that lead and contacted the Daito ryu organization about your training because you refer your skill to it the net on forums regarding Daito ryu. The answer I got is no record of you being a member or ranked. If you have proof otherwise I will easily take that.

I have found no info on the net that you trained in Tenshin Shoden Katori Shintoryu, so if you have proof of teacher and grade, I would be privileged to see it.

I asked to be directed to links to your training background. No one from you or your camp as of yet has provided any links to your training background.

YouTube as of Dec 7th had a video of you titled naginata implying you are showing naginata skills. I asked where you learned naginata and from whom. You haven't provided that info either. I ask again because I might know your teacher. Or maybe the person who put out the video incorrectly labeled it. [sigh]

If your going to be hating on people, telling them they suck, and what they do sucks, you have to have your house in order, bra. I not busting on you. It is all about context. You say Aikido sucks, did you do Aikido? It seems you didn't, but you say you hang with some Aikido guys. I had to do a net search and came up with Bill Gleason, and Chris Li. Saying you trained with these guys, who have CV, it gives context to you telling Rich he sucks. You could have just said I hang with Bill Gleason and Chris Li, that is where I get my Aikido info from. Instead of all this mess.


Louis..

I really don't mind Dan telling me I suck or that my training is airy fairy.

Heck where was Dan when I needed him most.

Fortunately for me my sucky airy fairy training saved my butt when needed most. I'm certain it will again but hopefully that won't be necessary.

I think you take Dan too seriously. He is obviously in demand as a teacher and that is all we need to know.

In all my post where Dan has responded I have never felt, insulted, intimated or hectored.

Possibly I have felt a sales pitch and someone baiting me for their merchandise which is worse than the above, but hey, everyone's gotta make a living...

any way best of luck... better use of energy is training and reflecting on training, than internet scrapping.

RSF is for me, good fun when the kids get you up early, and then crash out on the sofa...and very often there are excellent ideas from its members to try out in class..

be well

yours

Rich

https://www.facebook.com/krishnamurtifo ... =3&theater
Last edited by emptycloud on Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
emptycloud
Wuji
 
Posts: 725
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby GrahamB on Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:43 am

So, who was Dan's teacher again?

:D
If you don't become the ocean you'll be seasick every day.
Heretics podcast | The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 12399
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby Thin Ice on Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:27 am

GrahamB wrote:So, who was Dan's teacher again?

:D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc3AK8k90xw
Thin Ice
Santi
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:00 am

Re: this is not about Aikido

Postby Dmitri on Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:02 am

Personally, I'd like to know who this "Tom" character is. I looked at his profile, and searched the internet, but there is absolutely no information on his qualifications as an admin, a martial artist, or, in fact, a person. His threatening demeanor is intimidating, and just because he can chop up some threads and bully honest-to-god posters, it all means nothing without proper paperwork, made readily available to the curious denizens of the internets. I would be expecting a PM from him detailing his career in forum administration, so that I can properly determine whether he is worthy of his so-called "Administrator" status here. TIA
Last edited by Dmitri on Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9673
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

PreviousNext

Return to Been There Done That

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests