Kua Movement

[windwalker]

you're saying you do teach Silk Reeling

That's not what he said at all. He said that part of what he's teaching is very similar to the ICMA concept of "silk reeling" (as many other parts are respectively similar to their Chinese versions) and alluded to the similarities being historical in nature. Not sure why put words in mouth...? And more importantly, -- why shift the thread to being (yet again) about what Dan teaches, his teachers, etc.?

That said -- Dan had a hand in topic shift of his own; the relevance of how little internal skill the majority of ICMA folks can exhibit - an important subject on its own - is largely irrelevant here. And as everyone knows, the situation with IJMA folks in that respect is notably worse.

The good news is, both are improving these days, it seems.

strange

bodywork:

*I don't really care what you call anything.
I met Chinese Grandmasters and lessor teachers. It was they who told me what I s doing in my body was what you call pulling and reeling silk. Me?....
What do I care? I rarely use those terms, preferring mechanical descriptions as they are more relevant.

It would seem that its not similar its the same as noted by those who use the terminology.
I tend to agree with "bodywork" in that what is named or described is only relevant to help explain ones view point of what they feel is happening, regardless of what one calls it.
Its what one can do thats important.


Interesting enough I had the same conversation with one of the people I work with asking me if what he explained or thought was happening was correct or not.
I explained to him, that there is no correct in talking about it, its what you can do.

What is said will change as ones understanding deepens, in some cases one may not be able to
articulate what is being done or how or even feel the need too.

My own teacher is like this, his explanations are through doing.

Its only important to those one works with, either helping or confusing depending on the back ground of those that one works with.
Many of the older teachers I've met are using a more physic's based approach in their explanations understanding that
until the basic physical ideas are trained, talking about qi, yi, is not so productive in that it can lead down a different path of feeling that
one might understand how something is done with out really being able to do it.....

oddly enough by the time people who've put in the time and effort of practice, start talking about these aspects,
they dont need too as they'er able to do it, the explanations only help to
clarify what they already known.

[Bodywork]

What are the flaws that I see and have openly discussed, that you think are the bees knees?

nice hint whether intended or not ... even I can see how he moves his right knee as shown in the most recent video looks painful, makes me cringe.
His right hip throws out completely and doesn't look like there's much connection from feet to hands.

Wobbling on the feet, lateral translation of the knees and worse the hips!! Is indefensible. Its power loss pure and simple.
When people see the knees moving sideways they cringe because your average idiot knows that's bad for your knees.... I have almost two dozen Doctors and a host of bodyworkers who train with me who also cringe when they see that type of movement. But people miss the forest for the trees. While they know that it is the weakest angle for the knee, they miss the larger point; mechanical soundness and efficacy. I have a host of engineers, who once I demonstrate and explain the correct movement...agree that the other way is indefensible, as well. That is it is mechanically unsound for vertical translation of power. That being said, if that smaller knee joint's lateral loss is stupid...then the musculature surrounding the hips and thighs swinging out of line...is stupid on steroids!!
Its a perfect example of how someone can have power...and they themselves become complacent. Satisfied that they got it all...but they have missed the mark. You see it in a host of karate guys. I had a 6th dan in one Japanese Karate organization, and another 7th Dan in his own both go back to their soke who confirmed what I was saying is correct. Punching and kicking and moving by swinging your hips to and fro is just plain dumb and uneducated....and how the vast majority of people? Move!
Again:
Kua rotation is NOT hip rotation.
It is not folding.
It is not lateral rotation

[GrahamB]

Dan, I'm still not interested in your internet drama. Sorry.

You still haven't answered the question, so I'll repeat it - what is the name of the 'Chinese Grandmaster' who says you do silk reeling?

So on Silk reeling, your answer now is that no, you don't teach silk reeling?

All this evasion seems unnecessary unless you have something to hide, surely?

[cloudz]

Re. Chansi; and guess what, if you read Hongs practical method book, he says the other Chen styles are doing it (all) wrong anyway - miss by an inch miss by a mile. That Chen Xin in his book got it wrong by putting it third 'on the list'. and so on.. jokes isn't it

So unless you're doing the real real chansi, then what?

I remember reading the Adam Hsu book; sword polishers stone. Now he's someone that knows a bit about TCMA. He reckons that chansi is a part of all TCMA more or less.
Now, I don't really doubt that Chen has the most detailed, elaborate and complex chansi model on the face of the planet. But then if all I really need is a knife and fork to eat, do I really need a gold plated knife and fork?

Don't ask me!

[cloudz]

ps. just no plastic please

[GrahamB]

Dan is NOT teaching this https://vimeo.com/155019097

You're right - he's not teaching that. What he's teaching is this:

https://vimeo.com/104451653

Of these two videos I know which method I'd rather be learning... as you can see the methods are very different.

This video is forum member VMMark. It's currently public, so anybody can view it so I'm assuming he's ok with it being posted here.

[BruceP]

Much respect to Mark. Nice explanation and demo. Thanks for posting it, Graham.

Been doing that kind of work with long-handled implements for a bunch of years and the breathing is a challenge, for sure. Stepping with the switch makes a big difference in that regard when pitching whatever's on the end of the implement.

[charles]

What he's teaching is this:

https://vimeo.com/104451653

This video is forum member VMMark. It's currently public, so anybody can view it so I'm assuming he's ok with it being posted here.

So we are to understand that Mark is a student/seminar go-er of Dan's and that these are amongst the exercises Dan teaches?

[WVMark]

What he's teaching is this:

https://vimeo.com/104451653

This video is forum member VMMark. It's currently public, so anybody can view it so I'm assuming he's ok with it being posted here.

So we are to understand that Mark is a student/seminar go-er of Dan's and that these are amongst the exercises Dan teaches?

You're an @ss Graham. (Sorry for any confusion) Don't drag me in the middle of trying to set Dan up. What I'm doing in my vids is completely my understanding at a N00b level. I made the vids to show some people what I was trying to do. It's like taking a kindergarten child and saying, look he's working on quantum physics.

As for what Dan teaches, go to a seminar. Leave my pathetic attempts at my training at my low level out of it.

Mark

[wayne hansen]

We'll it says you need a password now

[Ian]

Leave my pathetic attempts at my training at my low level out of it.

Could you be more disparaging of your own training?

[Yugen]

What he's teaching is this:

https://vimeo.com/104451653

This video is forum member VMMark. It's currently public, so anybody can view it so I'm assuming he's ok with it being posted here.

So we are to understand that Mark is a student/seminar go-er of Dan's and that these are amongst the exercises Dan teaches?

You're an @ss. Don't drag me in the middle of trying to set Dan up. What I'm doing in my vids is completely my understanding at a N00b level. I made the vids to show some people what I was trying to do. It's like taking a kindergarten child and saying, look he's working on quantum physics.

As for what Dan teaches, go to a seminar. Leave my pathetic attempts at my training at my low level out of it.

Mark

Actually by dragging your video in he's demonstrated a further lack of understanding - at least from my perspective.

As I understand silk reeling it should result in spiraling energy and tissue movement. The movement Mike Sigman demonstrated, or any "internal" form movement, should ideally build that tissue connection and spiraling with intent. Dan does teach movement to train this.

What Mark is demonstrating (as I understand it) is an exercise that shows whether your movement training and use of intent is producing results. With very minimal body movement Mark is opening/closing kua, using back bowing and intent that should result in spiraling tissue movement and result in an energy transfer out to the end of the pull. As Mark notes, his back tissue is tight, so he gets little movement. There's an image of Dan doing this and pole is moving several feet off the center line as defined by the starting position of the pole. That's a LOT of tissue power that translates into hitting power.

Now as Dan is explaining, if you're movement is incorrect you lose all of that power, plus you're not training correctly to begin with. He makes it pretty clear and demonstrates it.

So the observation of which would you prefer to train? I'd like more power and no knee replacement surgery. thanks

I've also met a local Chen style guy who can demonstratively show dantian connection to his limbs, so Chen movement does train this, but he couldn't explain it like Dan.

[wayne hansen]

So where can we see this
Mark and mikes videos have us locked out
Lucky I'm not a conspiracy theorist

[Yugen]

So where can we see this
Mark and mikes videos have us locked out
Lucky I'm not a conspiracy theorist

too late! the secrets were all revealed and you missed out! They'll cycle thru in another 10 years, be patient! LOL!

[Marko]

Mark and mikes videos have us locked out

That's for the best, IMO. The whole "comparison" post is in very poor taste, and extremely unfair to all three men in question, Mark, Dan and Mike.