the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:35 am**

Steve,
what` the point? It is clear , that small % of the population are extremists of the all sorts.
Even smaller amount engage in a real fight.
Problem is, that we have quite big "silent supporters" group, and it happens to be the Muslims.
This is unfortunately directly rooted in the holy verses and tradition.
"We" just don`t mix quite well,
probably needs couple hundreds more years of slow mixing and exchanges,
but
for now, Europe is unable to accommodate such big amount of, like or not, - culturally different peps. In addition this terrorist pressing, and needs for social ...That`s all from my side for now.

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:11 pm**

As I've said several times, just tell me what you want to do about "them" and I'll tell you whether I agree or not. I don't have a special rule for Muslims, and less of a beef with them than with some others much closer to my home.

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:15 pm**

FWIW, I think that people here just pick the narrative that supports their beliefs. The clash of cultures narrative, too me is too simple, too broad and really doesn't explain my friends and work collegues. That some how they are all secret 'Daesh' supporters? How does such a view explain Jamel Debbouze and he is not unique, some one off. The graphs show that muslims are on the front-lines against this violence. I think its just a disservice to paint all these people with these broad strokes

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:19 pm**

Even if I carry money with images of slave holders on one side and "In God We Trust" on the other

I agree you should just not use it at all if its so reprehensible to you.
You should get rid of it.

I'm sure many here would not have a problem with it and would gladly take it
in order to help you feel better.

Why not put that bad money to good use

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:36 pm**

aamc wrote:FWIW, I think that people here just pick the narrative that supports their beliefs. The clash of cultures narrative, too me is too simple, too broad and really doesn't explain my friends and work collegues. That some how they are all secret 'Daesh' supporters? How does such a view explain Jamel Debbouze and he is not unique, some one off. The graphs show that muslims are on the front-lines against this violence. I think its just a disservice to paint all these people with these broad strokes

Try reading the text of what they follow.

Islamophobia:
Who are the
Islamophobes?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages ... hobia.aspx

The graphs show that muslims are on the front-lines against this violence

In order to support their own group,

The Muslim terrorists who frequently kill "other Muslims" in the name of Allah do so believing that their victims are Munafiqin or kafir (unbelievers). This is a part of Sharia known as takfir, in which a Muslim can be declared an apostate and then executed for their role in hindering the expansion of Islamic authority. (A true Muslim would go to paradise anyway, in which case he or she could hardly be expected to nurse a grudge amidst the orgy of sex and wine).

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages ... error.aspx

one can not ignore what is written as part of a practice that some follow.
as do major Islamic states.

If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is it the only one that consistently produces religiously-motivated terrorist attacks each and every day of the year? Why are tens of thousands of people willing and able to cut off an innocent person’s head or fly a plane full of passengers into an office building while screaming praises to Allah? Where’s the outrage among other Muslims when this happens… and why do they get more worked up over cartoons and hijab slights?

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:39 pm**

https://www.ted.com/talks/karima_bennou ... _headlines

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:10 pm**

I agree you should just not use it at all if its so reprehensible to you.

Glad you agree that slavery and the system that supported it was reprehensible and un-Christian.

Besides, you missed the point, again, as usual. I use the money, and I don't hate the men, Christianity, White people or God, in spite of that history.

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:17 pm**

Steve James wrote:
I agree you should just not use it at all if its so reprehensible to you.

Glad you agree that slavery and the system that supported it was reprehensible and un-Christian.

Besides, you missed the point, again, as usual. I use the money, and I don't hate the men, Christianity, White people or God, in spite of that history.

Naa, you brought it up as usual

if people dont get it, maybe you should clarify what you mean.
Good to know about the history part, what about others histories related to the current topic.

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:18 pm**

Religion of peace - why aren't the extremists extremely peaceful?

But, but, but the Buddhists,...and slavery.... ::)

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:42 pm**

Naa, you brought it up as usual

if people dont get it, maybe you should clarify what you mean.

Well, that depends on the desire of the reader to understand what's been written

Besides, there was also a point to be made about hating religions and people in general. If it's not understood, then it's not worth trying to spell it out.

Anyway, the "It" was the fact that Christianity has never prevented people from committing atrocities. It wasn't a comparison, just an acknowledgement. It wasn't to argue that Muslims or Islam are good, only that Christians have been just as bad, and many still hold the same ideas.

But, c'mon, the anti-Islam rhetoric is meant to justify actions against Muslims. I'm most interested in what happens in the States. I also know that whatever people will do to Muslims, they'll surely do the next group or mine. It's happened before.

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:12 pm**

But, c'mon, the anti-Islam rhetoric is meant to justify actions against Muslims. I'm most interested in what happens in the States. I also know that whatever people will do to Muslims, they'll surely do the next group or mine. It's happened before.

Are you attributing factual events to a hidden agenda that only you can perceive while others do not?
What would be the point?

If you where there would not your "group" be american and thus also be a target ?

Everybody knows what happened. Now, what should we do about the TSA? Or, what should we do in general? Or, is there really anything that can be done about people doing such things?

So far it would seem we have different points of view of why something happened. Many examples have been provided as to the why.
Until the why is agreed on or acknowledged I see little hope in addressing the what to do about it.

It wasn't a comparison, just an acknowledgement. It wasn't to argue that Muslims or Islam are good, only that Christians have been just as bad, and many still hold the same ideas.

how is this not a comparison ? Christians are just as bad as what?

Posted: **Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:53 pm**

how is this not a comparison ? Christians are just as bad as what?

Just as bad as members of any other religion in the US

. But, the point was that people who claimed to be Christian shouldn't be considered representatives of the religion. If I said that the KKK or Westbury Baptist Church represented Christians or Christianity, you might say I was nuts. Then again, is the Donald a ... aw, never mind. There will probably be some sort of of attack here at some point. But, frankly, it's a lot safer now than it was 30 and 40 years ago.

Posted: **Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:15 am**

But, the point was that people who claimed to be Christian shouldn't be considered representatives of the religion. If I said that the KKK or Westbury Baptist Church represented Christians or Christianity, you might say I was nuts. Then again, is the Donald a ... aw, never mind.

What has been pointed out is that Islam itself as belief system supports and fosters what is used by others in the name of it.
Reformation would take away some of the main reasoning by which some use and seek to justify their actions.

If I said that the KKK or Westbury Baptist Church represented Christians or Christianity, you might say I was nuts. Then again, is the Donald a ... aw, never mind.

Is the Donald what? what is it that that you feel he is?
How do you know what others would say or are you in the habit of attributing things not said regardless of what is said or current events.
The example that you used fails in that there are no written Christian text to my knowledge that support the actions of the KKK or other similar groups regardless of what they use it for.

"Love your neighbor and pray for those who persecute you."
Jesus (Matthew 5:44)

"If someone strikes you on the right
cheek, turn to him the other also."
(Matthew 5:39)

A very different message then

"Fight everyone in the way of Allah and
kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
Muhammad (Ibn Ishaq 992)

"If then anyone transgresses
the prohibition against you,
Transgress ye likewise against him"
(Quran 2:194

Posted: **Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:36 am**

Members of each Abrahamic tradition are quick to point out the rational and moral flaws in the others. I wonder sometimes, what this world might be like if they were as quick to examine the flaws in their own.

http://www.alternet.org/30-most-violent ... -and-quran

In the end, the scholars can agree on one thing: The DNA of early Judaism, Christianity and Islam code for a lot of violence. Whether they can evolve out of it is another thing altogether.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =124494788

Posted: **Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:24 am**

Is the Donald what? what is it that that you feel he is?

Then you quote these scriptures.

"Love your neighbor and pray for those who persecute you." Jesus (Matthew 5:44)
"If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."(Matthew 5:39)

Well, I guess I don't think that Donald or the KKK should claim to be Christian.

The example that you used fails in that there are no written Christian text to my knowledge that support the actions of the KKK or other similar groups regardless of what they use it for.

It "fails"? LMAO. You think that they don't quote Scripture? That just means you don't know 'em or scripture. Yeah, I can say that pretty safely. Just google "slavery" and the "Bible" or if you have the nerve try kkk and Bible. Then we can talk. If you don't find a connection, I'll donate $20 more to the USO.

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