External Sports Influence

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: External Sports Influence

Postby charles on Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:36 pm

Bao wrote:
willie wrote: Truthfully the video was extremely correct as it comes directly from Grandmaster WHJ.


Oh, so you published a video with some performance of some grandmaster with the initials "whj"?


One of Willie's teachers studied with Wang Haijun who is a disciple of Chen Zhenglei. http://wanghaijun.com
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby willie on Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:26 pm

charles wrote:
Bao wrote:
willie wrote: Truthfully the video was extremely correct as it comes directly from Grandmaster WHJ.


Oh, so you published a video with some performance of some grandmaster with the initials "whj"?


One of Willie's teachers studied with Wang Haijun who is a disciple of Chen Zhenglei. http://wanghaijun.com
That's correct Charles. I actually have 2 senior instructors from that lineage teaching me.
Last edited by willie on Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby I-mon on Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:10 pm

Wait I don't get it, is this a thread arguing about a thread that never existed?
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:12 pm

robert wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Qi/Chi is not the same as Ji/Chi unless he's talking about something beyond my meager experience

I think that should be -

Qi/Ch'i is not the same as Ji/Chi

As an initial sound ch' is pronounced q and ch is pronounced j in Wade Giles romanization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade%E2%80%93Giles


Even MORE specificity! I love it!
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby Bao on Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:51 pm

willie wrote:...but unfortunately guys like Ian who have over-inflated ego ruined it for everyone


DAMN YOU Azura IAN!!! -evil-

;D

robert wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Qi/Chi is not the same as Ji/Chi unless he's talking about something beyond my meager experience

I think that should be -
Qi/Ch'i is not the same as Ji/Chi
As an initial sound ch' is pronounced q and ch is pronounced j in Wade Giles romanization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade%E2%80%93Giles


To be fair, many people believe that ”qi” is in Tai Chi. Though I wonder when someone spend so much money to learn “secrets” and don’t understand the term Tai Chi.... :-\ But again, there are many people who cannot understand the difference between “Japanese” and “Chinese”.
Last edited by Bao on Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:39 pm

willie wrote:
xxxxx wrote:Ask and you shall receive.

Sorry mr. Mod. But these guys attacked my video as being incorrect. Truthfully the video was extremely correct as it comes directly from Grandmaster WHJ. The topic could of and should have been a very good one if other people had let it unfold in a rational manner. But I guess you're right maybe sharing thoughts opinions and videos on this site is not such a good idea. Thank you


I actually did have a question about the form but it's gone now.

It appears that, before you issue a "fajin" movement, there is a visible gathering. Just before the movement occurs, there is a telegraph that it's about to happen. Is this intentional in the style or is it something you're working on?
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby windwalker on Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:25 pm

oragami_itto wrote:
Trick wrote:Hmmm, so what does Qi mean?


Clearly it means "pole" or "polarity", though sometimes translated as "ultimate".



It might be better to understand the name in relationship to the I-ching

Image
"Fire over water: The image of the condition before transition. Thus the superior man is careful in the differentiation of things so that each finds its place."


Image
"Water over fire: the image of the condition In After Completion. Thus the superior man takes thought of misfortune and arms himself against it in advance."

the choreography/usage reflects the idea of change outlined in the book of changes

" "Hands holding Taiji shakes the whole world, a chest containing ultimate skill defeats a gathering of heroes."
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby willie on Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:54 pm

I use the word Tai Chi in that spelling because that was the automatic spelling using voice text on my iPhone
Last edited by willie on Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby willie on Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:41 am

I decided that even though this thread started off very badly to put the video back and hopefully find a way to have a reasonable conversation.
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby Bao on Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:41 am

Great Wille, very much appreciated. Good move. 8-)

oragami_itto wrote: Just before the movement occurs, there is a telegraph that it's about to happen. Is this intentional in the style or is it something you're working on?


Willie wrote an answer to you, but seems to have deleted it. I don't know why, it was pretty good and straightforward.
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:10 am

It was some advice that I took from a Tai Chi Master long long ago that I wanted to discuss with the board but unfortunately guys like Ian who have over-inflated ego ruined it for everyone


LOL

As usual, I think your performance is quite nice. I was simply pointing out what seemed like a startling lack of basic information about the art. This then led to some strange and ongoing post edits, projection, calming down, and reposting of the video. Of course, this all makes it clear who has the ego issues going on, but that's not a big deal either--par for the course on a MA forum.
And, I would never argue that talking about the arts are anywhere near as important as doing the arts. But, if one wants to talk about the arts, it helps to be able to...well...actually talk about the arts in a coherent manner.

But, getting back to the original topic, wouldn't it be better to use one of your application videos for this subject?
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby charles on Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:27 am

willie wrote:The pro's and con's of external influence. AKA peer pressure created from main stream media.


I'm not sure I really understand the question. Under what circumstances do external influence, peer pressure or main stream media enter into one's training?

If, for example, one trained a traditional art with a traditional teacher in a traditional way - whatever those might mean - then external influences, peer pressure and main stream media might be irrelevant. They become relevant under what modern circumstances? Wanting peer acceptance/recognition? Wanting to contribute to main stream media (e.g. Youtube) - and receive positive feedback? Wanting to enter public contests and win? I'm sure there are others.

If one's focus is on how others perceive what one does, then it appears they might be relevant. If one's focus is on oneself and on "self-cultivation", whatever that might mean, then is appears they might not be relevant.


So where does taijiquan really fit in with modern times and in a modern world?


I think the answer starts with the recognition and acceptance that in modern times, in a modern world, the practice of Taijiquan includes a wide variety of things for a wide variety of purposes/goals. It isn't one thing with one universally-accepted or defined goal. "Taijiquan" is an umbrella term for a diverse bunch of things. One might not like that, but that's what it has become in modern times in a modern world.

In that context, where Taijiquan fits in is defined by the many individual practitioners and what each practitioner's goals are for his or her own practice. It fits wherever and how ever the individual practitioners want it to. In my opinion, one can state, "My practice is about this", but attempting to state that, "All Taijiquan is about this", is to deny what the modern practice of Taijiquan is about for many other people.

One can argue that Taijiquan was originally created as a fighting art - and only a fighting art - and work to restore it to its former glory and its one true focus. To do so, ignores that for the vast majority of practitioners, in modern times, in a modern world, that simply isn't what Taijiquan is about. But, that doesn't prevent anyone from pursuing it for whatever are his or her personal goals, be they martial or something else.

Given that there are so many differing practices under the umbrella name "Taijiquan", if one wanted to distinguish what one does as MARTIAL Taijiquan, with the term usurped by so many other non-martial practices, it might make sense to name what one does uniquely, thereby distinguishing it from the rest. Create a new style, with a new name, divorcing it from all the rest of the stuff that isn't martial. In doing so, however, one potentially loses market recognition. There are lots of examples where people have done that: "Yang Luchan style", "old-Yang", "Yang Chenfu", "Practical Method", "Montaigue style" ...
Last edited by charles on Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:36 am

windwalker wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:
Trick wrote:Hmmm, so what does Qi mean?


Clearly it means "pole" or "polarity", though sometimes translated as "ultimate".



It might be better to understand the name in relationship to the I-ching

Image
"Fire over water: The image of the condition before transition. Thus the superior man is careful in the differentiation of things so that each finds its place."


Image
"Water over fire: the image of the condition In After Completion. Thus the superior man takes thought of misfortune and arms himself against it in advance."

the choreography/usage reflects the idea of change outlined in the book of changes

" "Hands holding Taiji shakes the whole world, a chest containing ultimate skill defeats a gathering of heroes."

I'm guessing my sarcasm was a bit too subtle?
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:37 am

Bao wrote:Great Wille, very much appreciated. Good move. 8-)

oragami_itto wrote: Just before the movement occurs, there is a telegraph that it's about to happen. Is this intentional in the style or is it something you're working on?


Willie wrote an answer to you, but seems to have deleted it. I don't know why, it was pretty good and straightforward.

You've got to be quick to catch Willie being informative.

What gives, Willie, drop that knowledge!
Last edited by oragami_itto on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: External Sports Influence

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:38 am

willie wrote:I use the word Tai Chi in that spelling because that was the automatic spelling using voice text on my iPhone


Read twice, post once, then edit a couple times for good measure
Last edited by oragami_itto on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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