Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

[roger hao]

hey - here's a what if................

What if the Covid patients were sent to nursing homes to drive up the death
count?
I did see the conspiracy thread is merged here -right?
We all saw that the pandemic was used to drive the New Green Deal.
Driving up the death count supported the agenda.

[Michael]

When you can count anyone as covid deaths, including homicide victims, which Birx stated from the beginning would be done in the USA, compared to other countries where only actual covid deaths were counted (her words, sourced below*), it sorta reduces the motive for nursing homes being used to inflate the numbers, especially when that aspect was not emphasized by the MSM.



It's plausible that putting covid positive people into nursing homes was a panicked decision made in the context of a wrongly predicted logistical problem of hospitals being overwhelmed, but that never happened in the USA, or most countries for that matter. The decision was questioned and should have been reversed as soon as possible, and as we see in Florida, it did not have to be executed without preparation or common sense.

*

If someone dies WITH [not from] covid 19, we are counting that.

[Steve James]

Cuomo was shoved in front of us

Bullshit from the start. He was governor before the crisis. He gives a press conference just like every other governor. BUt, you say he's shoved in front of "us" while you're speaking from Bolsonaro's Brazil.

You're just acknowledging that Cuomo is a good candidate. At any rate, are we great yet? Are we (us) better than we were 3 years ago? The more articles Michael looks up, the aim of the complaints become more obvious. The big joke is that it's the people who claimed it was a hoax are demanding a quicker reopening. Lol. None of ya'll critics live in the city.

Hey, I hope ya'll keep it up. It's an endorsement that just might make him the candidate, and you'll be proven right. Then you can criticize him for wanting to be president. Hey. the one thing that separates him from Trump is that Cuomo doesn't congratulate himself or make the crisis about him. Maybe he's fooling people, but he makes it look like he actually cares about the people. You can disagree with his plan, but at least there is one and everyone knows it. Like I said, he says it every day.

When you start criticizing orange man for golfing 2x as much in 3 years as Obama did in 12, I'll consider your criticism. Otherwise, it's just out of towners looking for things to criticize. It's not like there's any real concern for people. It's just political and about the election. That's the problem and that's the difference.

[Steve James]

Ah, someone went through 1,000 names and found one murder victims. Birx didn't say that murder victims would be counted, according to your cited quote.

Anyway, if a person dies from pneumonia or heart failure without testing positive, covid can't be listed. Iow, the number of deaths has to be correlated to the number of those who tested positive. If someone isn't tested, btw, there's no way to know either way.

So, what are the usual number of deaths from those diseases on an average year? Compare that to the number of people who've died with the virus. Use that number, if you like. There definitely weren't 30K or 15K or 5K homicides in any three month period in NY. Fwiw, there were fewer than 300 last year in NYC.

So far, we don't have 2 million tests done yet nationwide, and it's not over. But, okay, what do you think? Is the "real" number 50K, is it just to argue that it's less that the number given. Like I said, that argument will remain the same if the number hits 1 million.

[Steve James]

Yep, a conspiracy.

U.S. taxpayers' virus relief went to firms that avoided U.S. taxes

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2341ZE

How'd that happen?

[roger hao]

Steve - you are displaying a strong case of TDS.

What are you talking about?

Cuomo twins became the face of Covid 19 in the media

All based on the horrific rate of infection in New York.
I can see it now -
Folks - welcome Presidential candidate Cuomo famous for the most
people dying in his state while Governor LOL

[Steve James]

Trump said that 100K dead aas a badge of honor for the US. Do you think he'll run on his covid record?

Like I said, Cuomo is your worry. Keep pointing out his incompetence.

[windwalker]

Trump said that 100K dead aas a badge of honor for the US. Do you think he'll run on his covid record?

.

got a link quoting " 100k dead" attributing it to a "badge of honor" ?

President Trump said Tuesday he sees the increasing rate of coronavirus cases in the U.S. as a “badge of honor” because it's an indication of the country's testing capacity.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... e-of-honor

President Trump Says America's 1.5 Million Coronavirus Cases Are ‘Badge of Honor’ for Testing

https://time.com/5839262/trump-badge-of ... ronavirus/

Trump says the US leading the world in coronavirus cases is 'a badge of honor' because it reflects success in testing
Eliza Relman May 19, 2020, 2:45 PM

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-c ... nor-2020-5

[Steve James]

Yes, you are right. Of course, the number of cases has to include the number of deaths and hospitalizations. But, my point was/is why are any statistics a badge of honor for Trump, but should be considered a badge of shame for Cuomo?

I remember hearing the president say that "everybody who wants a test can get a test" almost two months ago. At that time, health care professionals were demanding ppes and tests for nursing homes --and other group residences.

Anyway, if Trump's point is right, then NYS has been the rightest. We have done the most testing. We've had the most victims/deaths, but we've also had the most recoveries. Besides, NYC has had more cases simply because more people come here, and came through here from Europe. Yes, scale is everything, and that has nothing to do with the governor.

Now, why does the US have the most cases, even if NYS is excluded? If it's a pandemic, shouldn't the percentage be proportional to the UK, France, or Germany? I.e., if Italy has 60 million people, and we have 300 million, we should have 5+ times the number of cases. Fwiw, Italy has 33K dead, but the UK has 38 thousand. Are our numbers really that unexpected?

Watch. If we hit 150K, some will congratulate themselves for the number of lives saved. I wouldn't be surprised if it reaches that by the end of the year. I'm only worried that it will be touted as the new normal, and we'll have to add that to the number of deaths "caused" by the flu.

[Michael]

Ah, someone went through 1,000 names and found one murder victims. Birx didn't say that murder victims would be counted, according to your cited quote.

NYT front page is a one in a thousand glitch, but I have "cited sources." Lol, I didn't mean Birx explicitly said murder victims.

Anyway, if a person dies from pneumonia or heart failure without testing positive, covid can't be listed.

Not true. You can list covid without a positive test and are encouraged to do so, described on April 9 by physician and state senator of Minnesota, Dr. Scott Jensen on April 9.

Minnesota doctor blasts 'ridiculous' CDC coronavirus death count guidelines

Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [have] impact on what we do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOT-xFWcppk

Last Friday I received a 7-page document that told me if I had an 86-year-old patient that had pneumonia but was never tested for COVID-19 but some time after she came down with pneumonia we learned that she had been exposed to her son who had no symptoms but later on was identified with COVID-19, then it would be appropriate to diagnose on the death certificate COVID-19.

Download PDF for April 2020 - Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID–19)

But, okay, what do you think? Is the "real" number 50K, is it just to argue that it's less that the number given.

There are CDC guidelines to inflate the numbers, monetary incentives from Medicare to inflate the numbers, sometimes non-existent tests a well as highly inaccurate tests, including Tanzanian paw-paws testing positive. Because of all those factors, "cited and sourced" below haha, it means the death numbers right now are guestimates, but this is nothing new for such diseases.

It was reported that Dr. Birx says 25% inflation rate, but that would just be a guestimate since there is no base line due to overall testing failure.

During a task force meeting Wednesday, a heated discussion broke out between Deborah Birx, the physician who oversees the administration’s coronavirus response, and Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Birx and others were frustrated with the CDC’s antiquated system for tracking virus data, which they worried was inflating some statistics — such as mortality rate and case count — by as much as 25 percent, according to four people present for the discussion or later briefed on it. Two senior administration officials said the discussion was not heated.

“There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust,” Birx said, according to two of the people.

Senator Scott Johnson (R-Minn.) has been pointing out the incentive for hospitals to place a COVID-19 diagnosis on television and his own Facebook page:

“Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it’s a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they’re Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it’s COVID-19 pneumonia, then it’s $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000.”

About 1.45 in the vid

As a physician I received an email last week from the Department of Health coaching me on how to fill out death certificates and I've never really received coaching from the vital statistics agency in terms of how to do a death certificate but basically I felt like they were saying, you know, you don't have to have a confirmed laboratory test for covid-19 in order to make the death certificate be covid-19.

Tanzania President reports faulty covid tests


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYfSqMult6c

[Steve James]

With all that information, the only conclusión you can make is what? How many people have died with the covid virus versus those who've died? What is the correct number?

Secondly, what does this have to do with Cuomo? How are you so sure of the number of people he caused to die in nursing homes?

I have no problem with different numbers. Yep, hospitals get more for treating covid patients. Yes, there is plenty of fraud, but that's because there's a profit to be made. I think that's true everywhere. However, why aren't all hospitals just marking every patient as covid?

[Steve James]

Conspiracy question; If unemployment is so high and so many businesses are closed, why is Wall Street doing so well? It's based on making profit, no? So, who's profiting right now?

[Peacedog]

The stock market is acting the way it is for a couple of very simple reasons.

1: The Fed is printing money like a third world banana republic during Mardi Gras. Inflation is officially low, because during the Clinton admin the government redefined how it calculates inflation so it didn't have to pay much on government bonds turning them into "free money" since most federal debt in the US is perversely owned by the federal government. As a result, real things, with real value are reevaluating themselves almost daily.

2: Most of the businesses taking it in the short hairs right now are not publicly traded. Of course Boeing is going for about 1/3rd its historical price and Ford is down by almost half. Because no one is buying aircraft and cars right now.

[everything]

Conspiracy question; If unemployment is so high and so many businesses are closed, why is Wall Street doing so well? It's based on making profit, no? So, who's profiting right now?

It does seem weird. Some ideas of what's happening.

- long term individual investors with retirement portfolios still buying stocks.
- in the long term, are planes and cars really going away? I think everyone doubts that. a lot of us do look forward to over-paying for a coffee again (myself included as ridiculous at that sounds).
- short term, business and vacation travel related, in-person entertainment, restaurants, real estate, etc. stocks down
- short term, internet and digital entertainment, some e-commerce, grocery, and work-from-home-related stocks up

- only FIVE stocks: Msft, Amazon, Google, Apple, and Facebook - make up 20% of the value of the S&P500.
- a lot of people allocate the stock portion of their portfolios into S&P500 index funds.
- these tech stocks are doing well during this time (and probably past the forseeable (forecastable) future, most people might guess) and so we all buy them.

- yes, some availability of "cheaper money" can help stocks:
- cost of capital is low
- as an investment, buying "safe" bonds is therefore going to give quite a poor return so really long-term investors should choose stock allocation

- over the long term, we know that "automation" and "AI" is replacing humans and providing higher productivity (one of my pet topics in off-the-topic).
- unfortunately that higher productivity should = good forecast for future profits for certain companies (see above), despite high human unemployment.... ultimately we do need high human employment to have customers, though...

I'm not an economist or investor, but I think that's all part of what's happening.

[Steve James]

1: The Fed is printing money like a third world banana republic during Mardi Gras.

The Fed has been "encouraged" to lower the interest rate to near zero. If you are a working class person with savings, you're earning next to nothing in interest. Mortgage rates are very low. Credit card rates are very high, some would say close to usury --since the Trump administration has removed earlier customer protection regulations. Banks get paid by the government to make loans from which they'll receive interest. These are all policies that can't be blamed on earlier administrations; these policies were fought for by this administration.

Banana republics don't print money because when they do it becomes worthless. That's what happened in the Weimar Republic as well. People carried money in baskets. That hasn't happened here. The dollar has lost value worldwide, and is at its lowest in several years, but there's still not much inflation. I was in South America when currency rates changed so fast that vendors didn't put price tags on their goods. The price of something could change from morning to evening.

2: Most of the businesses taking it in the short hairs right now are not publicly traded.

Agreed. My point was that "success" was being measured by Wall Street, and it was doing fine. If there is a discrepancy between it and main street, how has main street been helped? I'm just saying that clearly this administration thinks WS is more important. I mean, thanks for the $1200, but I don't want my tax dollars going to corporations on WS.

Most Americans don't own businesses, but they all need health care. I'd gladly give more tax money to ensure that. Food and shelter aren't optional, but I get the reluctance to give them away. If that happened, people wouldn't work. I remember one guy I worked for saying "If you don't have sick pay, you don't have sick drivers." Oh well.