But is it external?

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: But is it external?

Postby Trick on Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:34 pm

Actually I no nothing about cattle herding, but can understand that cows from time to time can be somewhat troublesome to handle creatures 8-)
Last edited by Trick on Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:00 am

Bao wrote:
It's not about if you have read philosophy or not, it's about cultural differences. Believe it or not, but such differences exists. If you tell a woman in the West or in India that she looks like a "cow", and you'll get two very different reactions. ;) Don't know if you get this one. Just one example of many.


Of course cultures are different. That's such an obvious comment it needn't be uttered. Although, as a student of religious history I am unsure about your cow comment. If you call an American woman a cow, she might slap you. If you call an Indian woman the same, she might slap you for the same reason. Or, she might be really confused given the current movement of women wearing cow masks to protest the elevation of cows' rights over women's' under Modi. Maybe you are taking the sacred nature of cows a bit far. I have inlaws who are Hindu, and calling a woman a cow is no compliment. And this sort of gets at my point. You are making gross generalizations that go so far as to be unhelpful. I think a fella named Edward Said wrote something about this line of thinking...
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Bao on Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:22 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Of course cultures are different. That's such an obvious comment it needn't be uttered.


But that was my original point and you seemed to disagree. In East-asian countries, people look at opposites differently than in the West, and I stay firm with this opinion. I could give you many examples to illustrate this and explain why, but I have a feeling that it would be a waste of time trying to convince you.

Although, as a student of religious history I am unsure about your cow comment. If you call an American woman a cow, she might slap you. If you call an Indian woman the same, she might slap you for the same reason.


In India, cows are holy and they represents beauty. A traditional indian woman would take it as a compliment.

You are making gross generalizations that go so far as to be unhelpful.


If you don't want to understand the reason you don't want to understand the reason. I tried to make a point that Chinese or Japanese look at "external vs internal" differently than in the West. I.e. the way people in the West look at this (false) dichotomy is based on mistakes. But I see no point of discussing this further.

Have a good day.
Last edited by Bao on Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:43 am

I tried to explain to you that your generalization doesn't hold. I, personally, don't hold to binaries like you are claiming I should.

I double-checked with my inlaws who were raised and some of whom still live in India and are Hindu. None of them think being called a cow is complementary.

You are operating with thin descriptions that would be disabused after a decent course in social sciences or humanities in college.
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Bao on Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:35 pm

Sometimes you need to simplify to make things clear. You could have asked me to explain further or you can just dismiss everything as you did. Going into detailed explanations at this point? No, I am not going to waste more time on this. Some people have a genuine interest for cultural topics, some don't. Everyone has different interests and it's all fine. Again, I wish you a good day. :)
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Steve James on Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:44 pm

Just a fwiw; Plato, Aristotle, Marx do represent "Western" philosophy, and Cartesianism is a western construct that is diametrically opposed to the idea of "yin and yang." However, not every "westerner" thinks only in terms of a Cartesian dialectic. I.e., "no two things can exist at the same place at the same time." Otoh, in "yin yang" theory, opposites coexist, but --in expression-- there is always more of one than the other.

Afa the op, I was taught that internal and external related to which method a style emphasized, but no style could ever be purely one or the other.
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:36 pm

Bao wrote:Sometimes you need to simplify to make things clear. You could have asked me to explain further or you can just dismiss everything as you did. Going into detailed explanations at this point? No, I am not going to waste more time on this. Some people have a genuine interest for cultural topics, some don't. Everyone has different interests and it's all fine. Again, I wish you a good day. :)


All good. I hope you have a good day, too.
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Trick on Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:39 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
Bao wrote:
It's not about if you have read philosophy or not, it's about cultural differences. Believe it or not, but such differences exists. If you tell a woman in the West or in India that she looks like a "cow", and you'll get two very different reactions. ;) Don't know if you get this one. Just one example of many.


If you call an American woman a cow, she might slap you. ..
how about cowgirl then, that should be ok?
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Trick on Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:47 pm

Bao wrote:In India, cows are holy and they represents beauty. A traditional indian woman would take it as a compliment.

interesting, I knew there in India is a thing about cows, but didn’t know in what way..good info
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Quigga on Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:43 am

A good cow gives warmth, flesh, milk and company.
A bad one doesn't.
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Re: But is it external?

Postby meeks on Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:00 pm

Trick wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
Bao wrote:
It's not about if you have read philosophy or not, it's about cultural differences. Believe it or not, but such differences exists. If you tell a woman in the West or in India that she looks like a "cow", and you'll get two very different reactions. ;) Don't know if you get this one. Just one example of many.


If you call an American woman a cow, she might slap you. ..
how about cowgirl then, that should be ok?

I prefer reverse cowgirl sometimes
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:16 pm

Trick wrote:
Bao wrote:In India, cows are holy and they represents beauty. A traditional indian woman would take it as a compliment.

interesting, I knew there in India is a thing about cows, but didn’t know in what way..good info


As far as I can tell, Bao simply made this up. I have never heard of it in any of my religious studies classes or readings. Cows represent maternity, bounty, and abundance. Not beauty.

Also, what is a "traditional Indian woman?"

More bad information, IMO.
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Finny on Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:06 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote: ...I think a fella named Edward Said wrote something about this line of thinking...


You're wasting your time unfortunately Ian.. I've had that very conversation with Bao and others many times over the years. Racists gonna racist.
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Re: But is it external?

Postby Trick on Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:03 pm

Finny wrote:. I've had that very conversation with Bao and others many times over the years. Racists gonna racist.

If we still talking cows I think it’s called Breeds and not race
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Re: But is it external?

Postby wiesiek on Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:54 pm

any cow can be killed , method is not important .

both will end with externally, and internally death cow, even holly one...
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