Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

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Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:37 am

Thought this might be fun to talk about.

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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby GrahamB on Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:52 am

It might be fun to talk about.... but I think that's also exactly what he wants and why he makes these joke videos. Anything to stay relevant. I think we should just starve him of the oxygen of attention. Last post about this vid me!
Last edited by GrahamB on Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby HotSoup on Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:51 am

He can’t be serious about it.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Rhen on Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:16 pm

this guy drinks his own kool-aid.

will never work in reality and he is def scared to put it to test in MMA.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby windwalker on Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:16 pm

oragami_itto wrote:Thought this might be fun to talk about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTZysb9yTNM]


Can you do, have experienced or explain what he’s talking about.
What was it you felt would be “ fun” to talk about :)
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:29 pm

windwalker wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Thought this might be fun to talk about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTZysb9yTNM]


Can you do, have experienced or explain what he’s talking about.
What was it you felt would be “ fun” to talk about :)


The instructions are quite clear, once pandemic restrictions are lifted and I have a practice partner I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to replicate these results.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Steve James on Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:41 pm

Well, the biggest myth in the martial arts is that "it won't work in the street." The problem is that everything works, but nothing works all the time. It always depends, otherwise all those fake martial artists wouldn't still be putting up videos.

But, it's the internet, so my only critique that it would be more helpful to see how he uses taiji when the single leg is successful. And, I don't mean "What if it's Khabib?" :) I just mean in general. That's what I'd like to see.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Bao on Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:52 pm

oragami_itto wrote:The instructions are quite clear, once pandemic restrictions are lifted and I have a practice partner I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to replicate these results.


I think you could do it with a partner, maybe even when sped up. But someone who knew what he was doing would do a takedown from very close distance. It would be done very fast probably initiated with a set-up of a few punches. So IRL, it would be very different from what you see here. The angles and leverage would be different as well, so practicing the methods here would be little of use. Better to practice with someone who is an expert in BJJ, MMA, shoot-fighting etc and practice to follow and adapt without any special technique in mind. Just IMO, ymmv.
Last edited by Bao on Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby windwalker on Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:06 pm

Bao wrote: Better to practice with someone who is an expert in BJJ, MMA, shoot-fighting etc and practice to follow and adapt without any special technique in mind. Just IMO, ymmv.


Do you practice with "experts" in BJJ, MMA ect.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:33 pm

oragami_itto wrote:The instructions are quite clear, once pandemic restrictions are lifted and I have a practice partner I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to replicate these results.

Ok, but if I remember correctly, you enrolled in Mizner's online class a few years ago, right? Is that why you feel that you could replicate what he demonstrates on his videos? :)
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:54 pm

Doc Stier wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:The instructions are quite clear, once pandemic restrictions are lifted and I have a practice partner I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to replicate these results.

Ok, but if I remember correctly, you enrolled in Mizner's online class a few years ago, right? Is that why you feel that you could replicate what he demonstrates on his videos? :)


Still subscribed to his videos and have nothing but good things to say about them. I don't claim to have any skill whatsoever.

That said, due primarily to his clear instruction. With a partner as skillful as this I believe I could easily reproduce this particular demonstration.

I'm not very interesting though. What do you think of the demonstration?
Last edited by oragami_itto on Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Bao on Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:23 pm

windwalker wrote:Do you practice with "experts" in BJJ, MMA ect.


I’ve done so. I like to go against and practice with people from different styles and learn about how they do things. Preferably people with a lot of sparring and competitions experience. Sometimes “the real deal” is quite different than from what you’ve expected.

You won't understand what is different until you've met it. If you look at a demonstration as this in the OP, everything is set up to be as easy as possible. I don't find it very meaningful trying to replicate the methods here, even though it's very easy in the classroom. I just don't think that the methods shown here are very good. In the first part, you leave the opponent open to change and adjust, which means that he will chase you. In the second part, the timing is off, so it's really set to fail. Anyone who has practiced real takedowns will expect their opponent to move and adjust to it. So what is shown here is just not very good if you want to practice anti-grappling defence.
Last edited by Bao on Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:01 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby dspyrido on Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:08 am

This video is just poor. Adam may as well have stepped back 10 meters and told the guy to fall over himself.

The least he could have done is put in someone who knows how to do a double leg. But don't take my word for it. Have a look at how these ladies do it:



Or coach Kolat does it:



And then watch the master.



Especially look at the later parts of the video when he gets better & goes against the most elite fighters. He makes it look easy. Now imagine Mizner in this equation.

If anyone wants to practice double leg defense then don't get a noob & instruct them on how they should fall. I wouldn't even recommend an mma'er or bjj'er unless they have cross trained with wrestlers.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Giles on Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:12 am

Steve James wrote: The problem is that everything works, but nothing works all the time. It always depends....


I'll go with that.

The first defence is actually pretty much what I tried to describe in the thread "Response to a low single leg" https://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28790&sid=16f19f48a4b92d5042aff24cb0ab02b3
In my non-expert opinion (but at least based on some exchange with grapplers and similar people, also during a year or two of amateur MMA training), it's basically a good approach/technique and can/might work in some circumstances. If it does work, then if you stick with the flow you also won't give the attacker the chance to try a second takdown. But obviously the attacks in the video are started too far out and still done in a 'friendly' way. And with no distractions/diversions, when you're stressed and maybe already hurt. A more realistic attack would be closer, timed better, harder to read. More 'brutal' and more skilled. And then, paraphrasing Steve, the defence might still work and might even work very well, but maybe it won't. The attack will look different, the defence will look different and the whole thing will probably seem messier/more complex. But the basic action can still be this. The best way to train this defence is on good mats so that the attacker, skilled or not, can still really go for it and the defender can land on the ground multiple times (i.e. fail) without being injured. The attacker too, of course.
The more skilled as a wrestler/grappler the attacker is, the less likely this technique is to succeed. But that goes for every technique. If you tailor your tai chi to (among other things) self-defence and less to competing in the ring/octagon, then any real-life takedown attempt may not be executed with great timing and technique. But if it gets you on the ground, you're still probably screwed. So in principle (!), I think the technique is good.

The second technique, or something quite similar, has also worked for me a couple of times in relatively friendly sparring. No, not when I was fighting for my life, which luckily I've never had to do (a terrible admission, I know). Each time I did it instinctively, one time I kinda hopped back simultaneously, and both times it surprised me as much as the other guy. In each case, for me it was do that or be taken down - it just happened. Every future time, it might not work and I'll be dumped, so I would never 'rely' on it.

Note: I'm not a 'Mizner fan'. But I can go with a lot of the ingredients and principles he shows without trying to do exactly the same things in the same way (or with the same claims or 'aura').
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Steve James on Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:42 am

Take taiji or 'style' out of the equation. Opponent goes for your forward leg, you move the leg. Another way is to push the opponent's head down, but if he's that close it means he can probably reach your leg. So, ideally, moving the leg and pushing the opponent's head/body down should work. Maybe.

Well, the problem is that someone can be fast enough, and "you" can be slow enough or unprepared, and he can both get your leg and keep his head up. Oops, so now what do you do? Taiji or otherwise? Since this is a common wrestling problem, there are plenty of videos on "how to defend against a single leg." Defense meaning what you can do "after" someone who knows what he's doing gets your leg. For ex.,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtSq24154iA

Again, however, watch Khabib's vids. His opponent knows all the moves, he even succeeds in controlling the head, but it doesn't work. Ok, Khabib's single legs are more like ankle picks --and the defense video concerns a high single leg. I'd still like to see how the taiji way would be different. I'm not saying that taiji wouldn't or couldn't work. Imo, it would probably have some similarity to a shuai jiao response, if there is one. I'd be interested in hearing John Wang's pov on this.
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