Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby AJG on Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:14 am

Businesspeople devise their strategies around the market they are targeting. Same thing is happening here.

Its easier to target a demographic that is gullible, weak minded and one that wants to believe in magic tricks so as not to work hard. And the absence of any sort of competitive framework just reinforces the illusion one is selling.

Try the same on some hardened wrestlers or rugby league players (is an aussie sport for those that don't know) and see what the interest level is.

I once knew a guy whose parents sent him to a shaolin temple in china for 3-6 months to "harden up". Yep he knew some nice forms but when I mentioned we might do some light sparring there was horror in his eyes.

I guess in a market economy there is something for everyone. Ignorance is bliss.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Quigga on Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:19 am

Wayne- You said over 40 years you figured out what was neccessary to teach for a living. What are those things? I have the suspicion that those aren't so different from what was required 'back in the olden days'. I feel there's a lot of bitterness in some high level teachers - 'What have they done to my precious art! Blasphemy! Preposterous!'. Making enough of a name for oneself and enough money to live somewhat comfortably in one's later years are part of that challenge too, I guess.

Let's say you have two 100% qualified disciples, you taught them deeply and they fulfill almost or all of your standards. They get hit by a car. Both of them die due to random circumstances in life, accident, illness. One of them loses a leg, the other an arm. Who knows? I wish no harm, but then all your efforts would be for nothing since they can't completely transmit anymore or at all. They're dead and so is your lineage / school of knowledge. Was it worth it?

I thought it was strange that Adam chose to wear those stupid rings for some time. Maybe I'm jealous, maybe they were blessed or smth. Anyway it's not an image I'd like to portray myself as.

Wayne, I'll put you on my list of people who I want to meet sometime :)
The culture we feel we're part of is dying. How can we rejuvenate it? Hiding for whatever reasons can't be the answer. In the Golden Gong Fu Age someone of your calibre (I assume your skills are better than his?) would go to him and... ahem, readjust his ways. Probably behind closed doors.

Why do you feel it's trickery what he does?


Bao- 'If u better then show it' - Yeah, let's stop showing and actually exchanging. Let's become a bodybuilding board where people claim they have the biggest veiniest bicep out there without ever posting a pic. Now let's have 2000 of those people and you'll have a shitshow of a community where nothing of actual value will be produced. If one doesn't want to go so deep into the scene, fine. But let's not drop standards further than they already are. Are you a trickster yourself, hiding behind thinly veiled jealousy and laziness to expose and correct others?

What stops you from starting your own interactive magic show where people get to enjoy the experience of something they never witnessed before? - Some walking away entertained and thrilled, some intrigued and gaining a little skill, some absolutely fascinated and ready to dive all the way in.

What I hear is a lot of complaining about the way things are and very little on how they could be improved.

The broadening of discussion show that maybe things aren't as simple as one would like them to be. On a car racing board, would you expect people to only talk about engines and how they work?

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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Bao on Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:03 am

Quigga wrote:Are you a trickster yourself, hiding behind thinly veiled jealousy and laziness to expose and correct others?
What stops you from starting your own interactive magic show where people get to enjoy the experience of something they never witnessed before? - Some walking away entertained and thrilled, some intrigued and gaining a little skill, some absolutely fascinated and ready to dive all the way in.


I am not sure if you are just thinking out loudly, saying something in general manner, or if you are trying to provoke... ??? I write my blog, earlier I have taught groups and I have shared videos and still do so occasionally. Despite checking out this place and others, I am very busy driving my own business and I do well. So I am definitely not lazy and have no reason to be jealous. But I like to discuss things and I try to share what I have to share. Listening to what experienced people have to say here is mostly rewarding. But I have no need trying to show off skills or to create a show. Nowadays I have a few friends I practice together with and a couple of private students, and that is enough.

I have no reason to put on a show. But if I did so, I would probably choose to create a theater act or a magic show. There’s no reason trying to portrait yourself as something else than you are. There are many good and honest ways to attract people without pretending that you are something else than you are.

What I hear is a lot of complaining about the way things are and very little on how they could be improved.


Sometimes people give good, practical advices, but most people tend to not taking notice of them or ignore them.

The broadening of discussion show that maybe things aren't as simple as one would like them to be. On a car racing board, would you expect people to only talk about engines and how they work?


That is very true.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Bao on Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:04 am

GrahamB wrote:
Excellent book on the subject:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Conjuring-Asia ... 101&sr=8-1

This book charts the history of modern magic across India, China and Japan, analyzing representations in the cultural imagination of the West.


Thanks, I appreciate the tip.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:47 am

Quagga having a lot of students is just about self promotion,not requiring much of them,telling them they are better than they are and promising them nirvana,
The tricks are how you tell them to train,where you put their focus
If my two students die it matters little the world will go on but a line of knowledge will be lost
It is only important one person with real knowledge finds a good student
My stuff is unimportant as long as other good stuff is out there
I have had a few people ask me to teach them lately
I have to think is it worth the effort
If they are gifted and train hard they may get it in a few years but I am 70
If they are a bit slow will I go the distance
Who knows
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Fubo on Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:37 pm

Regarding the OP's video, no half decent wrestler would attempt a single leg like the guy in the video did. In a standup grappling context they would snap the head down to get the opponent to react upwards, then drop their level and shoot in, turning to position on the side of the opponents body, while remaining relatively upright. They would also keep head contact to the inside of the body for leverage, and also to avoid being guillotined. Even in a striking context, a people with decent wrestling skills wouldn't just throw a few punches and dive into the take down while leaving their base behind, as if they're diving into a swimming pool. The attacker in the video clearly doesn't have a clue on how to set up and execute a single leg, so Mizner is basing his defense on a technique that's performed incorrectly. The common excuse seems to be that not everyone on the street is a proper wrestler, so this kind of attack an defense scenario may happen, but basing your defense on a shitty single leg, is like basing you striking defense on someone that throws punches and kicks a 80 lb teen that's down a bottle of vodka and has never had a fight in his life. Basing your martial art on expectation that your opponent has no clue as to how to fight doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Dmitri on Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:23 pm

Too bad Habib retired... Mizner would totally destroy him with his golden cock.

On a serious note -- always/automatic kudos to anyone who is even trying to make TJQ fighty.
But still, there's something to be said about realism, which in this particular case is sorely lacking.
It's like he's trying to defend against a puppy running towards him to play. You can't have "an" when you're being dragged backwards half-through-the-air (which is what would happen with any reasonably realistic single-leg attempt by anyone who ever wrestled as a kid).
Last edited by Dmitri on Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:35 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby wiesiek on Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:41 am

Mr Mizner`s vid. is showing quite good, let`s say "natural" defence,
BUT
against very open, lousy, signalized attack. Yup,it may happen sometimes...:)

This is very common problem of internet presentations, not only in discussed clip.
However, it is how you learn, teach, or getting use to new technique. Most important - it is beginning stage, (getting partner who knows what he is doin` is always a+).
If you don`t train/try it during sparring/competitions - it will be useless in reality
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Rhen on Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:17 am

Someone who does Tai Chi Chuan and has actual combatative experience should be teaching Tai Chi application especially vs MMA. Adam has not fought, will not fight, hides behind buddhism as if on moral highground, and has student who lost in MMA. Adam is overdue for a Xu Xiaodong fight many want to see. It's 2021 now, many fake masters have been debunked. It's Adam's turn to take a punch to the face for creating fantasy, when in turn he wouldn't be able to pull it off in the ring or cage. Shameful.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Tom on Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:35 pm

Rhen wrote:Someone who does Tai Chi Chuan and has actual combatative experience should be teaching Tai Chi application especially vs MMA. Adam has not fought, will not fight, hides behind buddhism as if on moral highground, and has student who lost in MMA. Adam is overdue for a Xu Xiaodong fight many want to see. It's 2021 now, many fake masters have been debunked. It's Adam's turn to take a punch to the face for creating fantasy, when in turn he wouldn't be able to pull it off in the ring or cage. Shameful.


Sounds like you’re looking for something to do, Rhen.
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Doc Stier on Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:23 pm

Rhen wrote:Someone who does Tai Chi Chuan and has actual combatative experience should be teaching Tai Chi application especially vs MMA. Adam has not fought, will not fight, hides behind buddhism as if on moral highground, and has student who lost in MMA. Adam is overdue for a Xu Xiaodong fight many want to see. It's 2021 now, many fake masters have been debunked. It's Adam's turn to take a punch to the face for creating fantasy, when in turn he wouldn't be able to pull it off in the ring or cage. Shameful.


Fair enough. We're all entitled to our own opinions.

All too often, however, personal opinions are based upon unverified assumptions, which may or may not be true. For example, you have observed that Adam Mizner hasn't fought in competitive MMA fighting venues, and apparently doesn't want to. I get that. Neither have I, nor do I wish to, either. But, I wouldn't assume that anyone who chooses not to fight in the ring or not give everything away on free YouTube videos has no legitimate martial skill. ;)

Video producers create what THEY want us to see, but not necessarily what WE want to see, and perhaps not everything which they potentially could demonstrate. Thus, I would never assume that anything seen on anyone's video accurately represents their actual fighting skill. Likewise, the observable skill level of students, or a student's competition fighting record, also may not be a good indicator of a teacher's potential personal combat capabilities, since nobody can train for any of us. That's why it's called 'solo practice'.

Just like public demonstrations at tournaments or elsewhere, video demos are oftentimes deliberately intended to imply a greater skill level than what the performer actually possess, usually for personal business promotion and ego aggrandizement, while others intend to deliberately conceal their overall skill or greatest skills, while still showing something of interest as a 'teaser' or 'bait' to attract new students.

So, it may not be easy to determine whether someone's fighting capabilities are good or bad by merely watching only what they want us to see on any video. Short of resorting to criminal assault or ambush to test someone under realtime self-defense circumstances, particularly if they are unwilling to cross hands, there simply isnt any foolproof way to validate their fighting skills. :-\
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Quigga on Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:17 am

What's the point of concealing and hiding skill in modern times?
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:06 am

Quigga wrote:What's the point of concealing and hiding skill in modern times?

News Flash! It's a personal choice for a variety of reasons. No teacher is obligated to show anything or everything simply because other people feel entitled to see it on demand. ::)
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:28 am

A classic example of the pitfalls inherent in choosing to tell all and show all publicly is the Gracie experience in the UFC. They initially defeated most opponents with their family system of BJJ, when outsiders were unfamiliar with the tactics, techniques and training methods of their art. But over time, these things were thoroughly revealed in the video record of their bouts against a wide variety of opponents. As a result, other fighters without any previous exposure to BJJ quickly seized the opportunity to replicate the Gracie's success by adopting their methods, subsequently defeating even the Gracie champions using their own techniques and strategies against them. :o

Thus, in the view of many traditional martial arts experts, for the sake of proving that they had an effective fighting system, and for the sake of generating short term competition income, they essentially gave their system away, along with any martial advantages it had prior to entering MMA venues. Unfortunately, there's no taking it back after letting the cat out of the bag! :-\
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Re: Sifu Adam Mizner shows how Taichi can stop MMA style takedow

Postby GrahamB on Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:12 am

Doc Stier wrote:A classic example of the pitfalls inherent in choosing to tell all and show all publicly is the Gracie experience in the UFC. They initially defeated most opponents with their family system of BJJ, when outsiders were unfamiliar with the tactics, techniques and training methods of their art. But over time, these things were thoroughly revealed in the video record of their bouts against a wide variety of opponents. As a result, other fighters without any previous exposure to BJJ quickly seized the opportunity to replicate the Gracie's success by adopting their methods, subsequently defeating even the Gracie champions using their own techniques and strategies against them. :o

Thus, in the view of many traditional martial arts experts, for the sake of proving that they had an effective fighting system, and for the sake of generating short term competition income, they essentially gave their system away, along with any martial advantages it had prior to entering MMA venues. Unfortunately, there's no taking it back after letting the cat out of the bag! :-\


"they essentially gave their system away, along with any martial advantages it had prior to entering MMA venues. "

;D Are you kidding with this stuff? Gave the system away? ;D ;D ;D The Gracie family were laughing all the way to the bank. You are right that the Gracies lost their edge because they openly taught their material, but the goal was always to popularise jiujitsu as a living and breathing system. It worked exactly as planned.

You'd think the more astute individual would look at what happend and compare the state of BJJ today to the state of CMA and wonder on the wisdom of still trying to keep the cat in the bag (long after the cat has died from asphyxiation).
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