more acid kool aid from the miz

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Bao on Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:49 am

dspyrido wrote: Mizner would be better getting rid of these bad videos & rebuilding his promotions off a better tested & more realistic base.


I don't think so from a marketing and branding point if view. Again, people seldom have the interest to actually learn and know things, but rather they want magic and watch things they have a hard time to understand. If Mizner he changed to a more realistic approach and did more of actually teaching, he would soon fall into the category of "one of many" and probably become pretty boring. He is smart by sticking to the demo mode.

Nah, I sincerely hope he doesn't change anything at all. I myself would miss the entertainment value of watching his videos if he went "real". ;D
Last edited by Bao on Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby windwalker on Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:00 am

Bao wrote:
dspyrido wrote: Mizner would be better getting rid of these bad videos & rebuilding his promotions off a better tested & more realistic base.


I don't think so from a marketing and branding point if view. Again, people seldom have the interest to actually learn and know things, but rather they want magic and watch things they have a hard time to understand. If Mizner he changed to a more realistic approach and did more of actually teaching, he would soon fall into the category of "one of many" and probably become pretty boring. He is smart by sticking to the demo mode.

Nah, I sincerely hope he doesn't change anything at all. I myself would miss the entertainment value of watching his videos if he went "real". ;D


Those offering advice not doing what he does, marketing or otherwise
suggesting that he should follow their advice because?


Isn’t it what’s being criticized now, he doesn’t engage in combative events publicly, offers public advice based on
His experience while offering a unique method for those looking for it ?


Always find it strange, people suggesting others don’t understand what they’re looking for, maybe they do?

What he offers is a "method", using different scenarios to demonstrate what some might feel is a unique method

a kung fu bother of mine also offering training courses offering what he feels is a unique method

Should he also change his marketing ?

Southern Mantis

https://hakka-mantis.com/meet-your-teacher-rdh/
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:49 pm

Without the combat Aspect there is no tai chi
No tai chi gong or chuan
It is just the hair and skin of the Tiger
That does not mean to teach you should be at the level of a top fighter but you must understand the purpose and method of the art
If not what is the purpose you are better off doing chi gung or yoga or for that matter interperative dance
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Trick on Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:36 am

. Again, people seldom have the interest to actually learn and know things, but rather they want magic and watch things they have a hard time to understand.
. Well those who looking to learn how to punch someone in the mouth will of course not turn to Taijiquan. TJQ offer something different -an over all awareness practice applicable in ones daily duties making those easier.
As an “martial art” practice it’s suited for those who already know mouth punching and the practice might fine tune their awareness so to they will not risk hurting their knuckles and opponent mouth
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Trick on Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:28 am

wayne hansen wrote:Without the combat Aspect there is no tai chi
No tai chi gong or chuan
It is just the hair and skin of the Tiger
That does not mean to teach you should be at the level of a top fighter but you must understand the purpose and method of the art
If not what is the purpose you are better off doing chi gung or yoga or for that matter interperative dance

An non martial arts practitioner can gain plentiful from correctly taught TJQ form practice, this was found out back when the method was made public, so telling practitioners with an non combat intent to go somewhere else seem a little rude...from the forum, one can tell that there are plenty of practitioners that know how to teach and apply Taijiquan as an pure true combat method...so there should be no worries that combat Taiji might disappear because of successful teachers as Mizner

Yoga - many of the yoga postures actually originated in Scandinavia as gymnastic for ones physical health, an early fitness gymnastics, it showed good results and quite soon spread to England where it became a part of soldiers fitness training program and with the English colonialist forces then spread to India
where locals learned the exercises and incorporated it into their Yoga
Last edited by Trick on Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:11 am

Truth is rude to those who don't want to see it
You may have seen people who do tai chi without the martial content who do it well
I have not but that may be because we judge it on differing levels
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Trick on Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:54 am

wayne hansen wrote:Truth is rude to those who don't want to see it
You may have seen people who do tai chi without the martial content who do it well
I have not but that may be because we judge it on differing levels

I have seen people doing TJQ who are not interesting in combat enjoying and benefit from the form practice
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby windwalker on Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:50 am

Trick wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:Truth is rude to those who don't want to see it
You may have seen people who do tai chi without the martial content who do it well
I have not but that may be because we judge it on differing levels

I have seen people doing TJQ who are not interesting in combat enjoying and benefit from the form practice


“Truth “ if based on judgment, not independent outside of judgment, can it be regarded as a truth ?

The “need” for the practice of historical martial arts has long since passed, most of the traditional arts at one time or another turned their focus on developing or cultivating what’s called martial spirit, or sustaining their practices without the focus on competitive events, only concerned with sustainment of the practice itself.

Taiji or what’s come to be known as Taiji is mainly propagated recognized through the five family styles.
Adapted by the families themselves to changing conditions or social needs with the goal of preserving their family style traditions, along with a viable source of income allowing them to do so.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:58 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Bhassler on Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:08 am



Mizner talks about chi and shoulders and blah blah blah. Starting at 2:08, he demos "without chi" by pushing directly into his student's structure. Then, he shows "with chi" by pulling into the void in the student's stance. So he's doing different techniques to get different results, all the while misdirecting his own students about what he's doing and selling mystical chi energy.

This is very typical of his teaching and how he trains his students. He deliberately misleads and teaches wrongly so he can continue to dominate them. Martial, non-martial, traditional, or not-- he lies to his students so he can continue ripping them off, and that makes him a fraud and a piece of shit.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Tom on Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:29 am

Bhassler wrote:

Mizner talks about chi and shoulders and blah blah blah. Starting at 2:08, he demos "without chi" by pushing directly into his student's structure. Then, he shows "with chi" by pulling into the void in the student's stance. So he's doing different techniques to get different results, all the while misdirecting his own students about what he's doing and selling mystical chi energy.

. . . .


A couple of observations about the time frame indicated on this clip:

---the instruction to relax and set the shoulder is fairly standard and is biomechanically sound.

---at 3:14, Mizner is not pulling Fabio into the "void in the stance." He is pushing back into Fabio's stance, albeit at a vector slightly different from where Fabio's force is being directed.

Leaving out the reference to "qi," I just hear see fairly conventional push-hands tactics, nothing mystical and certainly nothing dependent on ascribing to the "qi" paradigm. In that respect, the ambiguous and vaguely-mystical references to qi in Mizner's patter aren't necessary to get the skill. I've seen and felt Tim Cartmell, who avowedly disregards "qi" as an element of his explanation and instruction, use similar movements to feel the opponent's force/direction and move in to off-balance and push (or throw or take-down) the opponent--without reference to qi. It's listening by touch, neutralizing, extending as efficiently as possible, with "song" a body/mind state that optimizes those skills.

Mizner seems to have gotten most of his skills and his "advanced" taijiquan from Liang De Hua in Thailand. Liang teaches these skills differently--and his basic and ongoing online curriculum varies substantively--from Mizner's. I think we'll see Mizner moving away from overmarketing of taijiquan in the near future and trying to peddle his meditation courses more. There are better online courses in Yang taijiquan variants, including Liang's and Chris Davis' Tai Chi Academy. Mizner organized and produced most of his online taiji curriculum beginning in 2014, six years ahead of most potential competitors.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Quigga on Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:01 am

What's interesting to me is how people here would explain what Mr. Huang Xingxiang / Sheng Shyan (don't know the spelling) does without excluding manipulation of Qi. Mr. Ryabko also shows some strange things.

Didn't know Adam learned from Liang De Hua.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:49 am

Still want to see the clip of the old guy defeating liang in the park
When Huang did the sitting down trick
And it is a trick
At least he showed some good subtle manipulation of his students
This is just crude use of physics and brute force against the unskilled
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Peacedog on Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:33 pm

Adam got most of what he has from Rasmus.

Rasmus is ground zero for a variety of better known players in the both the tai chi and meditative arenas. Almost none of whom openly acknowledge the degree to which his material provides the base for what they know. It's one of the reasons why attending one of his training camps is so much fun. The range of people who show up is truly amazing.

What I can say say is that a number of people exist, and are quite popular on the seminar circuit, that claim a lineage to "Master ABCXYZ". And they did in fact purchase some kind of lineage certificate from that lineage master. But they didn't get any teachings from that lineage.

What they did do was go to Rasmus, learned his method and either used it directly after repackaging it, or reverse engineered what they teach from someone else's teachings using Rasmus' method.

What Adam Mizner is demonstrating is a very typical drill from Rasmus' Elastic Force Chi Gung course.

Rasmus himself doesn't really care. He's rapidly getting to the point where he can fully retire and practice all day. That said, if you like what Mizner is doing go to Rasmus directly. I've never met anyone that studied under Mizner who has any ability. Adam Mizner does not teach in a way that results in students developing what he is demonstrating. He's following an older Chinese model of teaching that results in long term dependency. Mainly so he can keep making money off of people. He's not interested in training people.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Tom on Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:04 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Still want to see the clip of the old guy defeating liang in the park
When Huang did the sitting down trick
And it is a trick
At least he showed some good subtle manipulation of his students
This is just crude use of physics and brute force against the unskilled


Wayne, if you find that clip with Liang (I assume you mean Liang De Hua) in the park, please post the link here.

"When Huang did the sitting down trick"--I assume that is a separate sentence from the statement about Liang. By Huang do you mean Huang Sheng Shyan? I think Huang did set something of a lineage standard for leading and manipulation of students. More recently, Sam Tam did the same thing.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Tom on Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:10 pm

Peacedog wrote:Adam got most of what he has from Rasmus.

Rasmus is ground zero for a variety of better known players in the both the tai chi and meditative arenas. Almost none of whom openly acknowledge the degree to which his material provides the base for what they know. . . . .


Rasmus is definitely a huge source of whatever Mizner has--from years back. Mizner's various claimed connections to Yang Shaohou, "fast forms" and some of the cultivation and application of "song" come Liang. Mizner says Liang is a "training partner," but that would be like calling Rasmus a "training partner."

Rasmus deserves recognition for the excellent and original work he's added to the taijiquan he trained in. To the extent online training can help, I'm glad to see he's put together an "Elastic Force" course offered through the Martial Man website.
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