more acid kool aid from the miz

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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Trick on Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:40 am

Mizner live in Thailand right? A country famous for their fearsome pugilist method and to produce loads of good fighters. I actually think Mizner is somewhat courageous to be so public with his Taiji in that environment....
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Steve James on Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:24 am

Muay Thai people don't worry about the Taiji world or Taiji people.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby marvin8 on Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:15 am

wayne hansen wrote:Taste why do that
Not everyone who doesn't like something needs to replicate it
Discuss the clip what do you think is good about it

Ben Cohen analyzes Adam Mizner, "Best Tai Chi I've Ever Seen."

Ben Cohen - Internal Wing Chun
Oct 19, 2020

In this video, Ben Cohen analyzes Sifu Adam Mizner, founder of Heaven Man Earth T'ai Chi Ch'uan. Mizner is one of the best T'ai Chi players on the planet and there is much to be learned watching him in action and listening to his take on Martial Arts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgL1-PXSAB8
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Trick on Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:28 am

Steve James wrote:Muay Thai people don't worry about the Taiji world or Taiji people.

Yes, exactly
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby windwalker on Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:06 am

Trick wrote:Mizner live in Thailand right? A country famous for their fearsome pugilist method and to produce loads of good fighters. I actually think Mizner is somewhat courageous to be so public with his Taiji in that environment....


Lived and worked in Thailand.

Lumphini Park, in Bangkok had a sizable CMA community that practiced in the mornings.
In talking with those I knew, they respected CMA practitioners , understanding the differences between Thai boxing and CMA practices.

As with anything there are varying levels of competence and depths of practice.
In the clips shown, the teacher is skilled in showing different types of force one can generate along with applications that depend on being able to do so.

His main draw for those looking to understand and develop it.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:31 am

Steve James wrote:Muay Thai people don't worry about the Taiji world or Taiji people.

Perhaps so. Nonetheless, anything outside the norm of what is commonly encountered is likely to draw biased criticism and unwanted challenges from numerous individuals. Thus, it is always courageous to publicly present yourself as the odd exception, imo. :)
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Steve James on Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:05 am

Thus, it is always courageous to publicly present yourself as the odd exception, imo. :)


That's true. Maybe he should make some videos using the local MT guys. I think that would be impressive and draw even more students.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:12 pm

Steve James wrote:
Thus, it is always courageous to publicly present yourself as the odd exception, imo. :)


That's true. Maybe he should make some videos using the local MT guys. I think that would be impressive and draw even more students.

Agreed. That's a great idea! :)
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:55 pm

Internal wing Chun judging the best tai chi
That sums it all up
Has mizner ever accepted a challenge
Reminds me of Billy Chun
He went around making claims of having the best wing Chun until one day someone walked in with a camera and played with him like a puppy
He blamed his shoes
A guy I know who couldn't last with tai chi guys started teaching karate guys
They were easy to play with because they didn't have the skills that were being shown
As someone who taught a lot of seminars at one stage I found it quite easy to avoid those who came to cause trouble
If an(internal( Not that I believe it exists) wing Chun person want grappling go to a grappler
This is one of the best Mizner clips I have seen
It is well edited and I am sure his opponent are carefully picked for their reactions
When I taught seminars I pushed with everyone does he do that,I doubt it
I could take any of these people aside spend a short time with them and take away his advantage
The way they push makes them easy fodder
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby dspyrido on Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:30 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I mentioned his students in response to a statement made
You are right about the skill level
Not many tai chi people would go well with a half trained boxer
Tai chi is a self defence art and not a ring sport
It is not designed to go up against a high level sportsman
It works how it is designed
It has worked for me and with boxers
So I know it has its value


I like to make the distinction of (tai) chi gung and tai chi chuan. 99.9% of people do chi gung. The problem is when it's disguised as tai chi chuan where it is only "trained" in closed groups doing moves that are nonsense.

Of real tcc I won’t assume any great wins in a ring. It's not about rules, gloves, cardio and weight cutting. But on a short quick 1-2 minute scenario then yes it can work. Odds get even better if contact and control happens.

I've never met you Wayne but I've met some good tc people.

The ones I met don't train silliness. They drill moves over and over playing with variations & experiment to ingrain it. They train structure, sensitivity, lures & timing against real pressure. Not made up forces or mumbo jumbo. They get out and try what they learnt against other experienced people outside this group, learn from that, refine their training and repeat.

I believe real tcc as a template for learning is great. It's just most of what is taught is not even tcc or even worse is tcc disguised as rubbish. Mizner would be better getting rid of these bad videos & rebuilding his promotions off a better tested & more realistic base.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:49 pm

What leads you to think Adam is able to do that
What groups have you met that train the way you are talking about
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby dspyrido on Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:48 pm

wayne hansen wrote:What leads you to think Adam is able to do that
What groups have you met that train the way you are talking about


Lots of exchanges. Some that stand out for me:

- Family lineage of Sun style in china. The father & the top students came along. They did forms fast & slow, they drilled singular moves & push hands was trained with sensitivity & with real attempts to wrestle & control.
- My sifu with his wu hao, shuiajiow, xylh & many others. His qinna was excellent & I am suspect a big part of the skill came from ji jing shan.
- Shanghai - Yang Style lineage - he was a push hands champion. I got to spend a few days there while he looked after me & introduced me to some local sifu's. He did forms, techniques & we did push hands. He was great.
- Another in Shanghai mixed lineage of sanda, wu & yang style, shuiajow & xylh - he had some great fight in him
- I've also sparred in many open meetings with a different guys who had a mixed background that included taichi. Two come to mind that could hold their own. Exchanges happened. They were good. Not enough for me to say I was missing something & needed to follow up with them but they were good.

And then there's the many others I've met that I would rather forget. I've visited many schools & in this category they fell into 3 groups:

1. Tai chi only being learnt as chi gung. Perhaps the sifu was great at some point but they are not teaching students martial arts.
2. Tai chi guy who is not bad but not great. They at least are happy to give it a shot but there is no point in pushing it too far.
3. Tai chi guy who looks at me & you know there is no way they will openly exchange. I'm not interested in listening to stories about how great they are from starry eyed students & wasting a decade trying to convince myself that the qi will flow.

My biggest thing with Tai chi is that it is like a needle in the haystack. Frankly I never found anyone locally who was teaching it from a fighting perspective & could deliver on the promises. Even my sifu who had the goods simply said - do xylh (& then later mixed other stuff in).

If you have any recommendations then please PM me & happy to meet up with anyone to exchange.
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:55 pm

I don’t know of anyone down there
I notice Adam is teaching classes in clovelley
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Trick on Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:54 pm

Are there any Thai Internet martial arts forums around ? Not that I could read Thai, I can’t, but it would be interesting if Mizner are subjected to the same negativity and ridicule on such a forum as he’s being here...Or is it just “western” fighters that has a thing with Mizner ?
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Re: more acid kool aid from the miz

Postby Trick on Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:07 am

. I like to make the distinction of (tai) chi gung and tai chi chuan. 99.9% of people do chi gung. The problem is when it's disguised as tai chi chuan where it is only "trained" in closed groups doing moves that are nonsense.
actually I think Wu Tunan made that distinction -Taichigong/Taijiquan....Anyway “Taijiqong” is crucial to transform ones eventual fighting practice into any “taijiquan”,...it’s so crucial I would say that taijigong is Taijiquan
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